Radar is water fanatical and really freaks out every time he sees a body of water. He's jumped out of a moving vehicle (thank god we weren't going fast) because he knew we were about to stop and then he'd get to go swimming. He screams if I don't allow him in the water, struggles and fights me tooth and nail. He refuses to come out of the water unless I pretend like I'm leaving him behind or beg him. He also leaves his toys in the water and expects me to wade in so that I can throw them again. I've stopped playing that game and now just throw rocks and laugh at him while he swims in circles looking for it.

Needless to say he is severely restricted from playing in water. There are no public areas that allow dogs in the water where I can easily wade in with him. The only water we have around here are ponds with steep banks and lots of mud on the bottom. He doesn't sink, but I went in once and went up to my chest immediately and climbing out was an act of god.

So I need ideas on how to teach him self control, how to teach him to bring the toy to me so I can keep playing, and how to get him out of the water without getting irritated and just walking away. I've tried clicker training but water is much more important than food or toys.

I'd get a kiddie pool to start with.

Then make playtime in the pool his reward. He earns he, he can go play.

Put a drag line on him (with the kiddie pool) so he can't ignore you. He's playing, call him to you. He comes, you mark, he is released to play in the water again.

He doesn't come, he is corrected, do a minute of OB work, mark a desired behavior, release him to play in the pool.

It sounds like he's figured out that you can't control him with water. And when he gets out, playtime it over. So you need to have a source of water you can control (the kiddie pool) and control him around before you think of anything larger. By calling him to you and releasing him back to play in it, the water becomes a high value reward for coming when called.

There's a huge kiddie pool at the dog park I can use. I don't know why I never thought of starting off small.

Mara's got the right idea. I don't think there's any better way really.

When you graduate to big water, could always use a long line, probably nylon.
That is until he has a solid recall out of the water.

I would keep a line on him in the kiddie pools but a line in a lake or pond could result in a snag and a dog that is stuck in the water.

Once you have practiced in the kiddie pool and are working in one of your swimming spots, tie the toy to the long line, that way you can "reel" him in if he is not bringing the toy back.

I resulted to tying the toy to a rope, but he still leaves it and I think that was what really solidified in his mind that he's *supposed* to spit it out and then stare at me and refuse to come to me because I can easily get the toy myself.

I think you can use ecollars too. I think DOGTRA makes them water proof.

I think I would work on recall and retrieve separate of the water. Thats a lot to teach to a dog that sounds like he's not really a natural retriever as it is and adding in the swimming, to me, thats too many things at once.

If you want self control Samantha, you have to give him a chance to show self control. Its another obedience.

 Quote: steve strom

If you want self control Samantha, you have to give him a chance to show self control. Its another obedience.

This^^^

I want my dogs to have a habit of checking in with me before anything. I do lots of "wait" before activities.

I'll open up the crates and wait for eye contact before telling them "free".

I have them wait and give me eye contact before releasing them to eat.

When I put Kenzi in harness for biking, I wait until she turns her head and gives me eye contact before I say "let's go".

Calm focus gets focus gets rewarded.

Radar is a teenage malinios - they tend to needs lot of boudaries and NILIF in general.

 Quote: mara jessup

I do lots of "wait" before activities.

I do this too and think it is the single biggest thing that maintains household order.

Identify the biggest "wants" in the dog's life (i.e. biggest reward) and then train them to show self-control as a means to getting it. Waiting before eating is a big one for most dogs. The other things for mine are putting on and taking off of leashes, going through doorways, the backyard gate, entering and exiting the car, and exiting a crate.

In all these instances, there's no need for an extra "reward" (treat) the reward is built in.

You start by asking for "sit" or "wait" or "watch me"--and then release.

But the real self-control comes when you no longer have to ask with a verbal command--the dog simply knows that he cannot have ___ without waiting for a release. (Even if you have to stand there silently while they "remember" what it is they have to do). It's great if you can command a dog to sit and wait before exiting the crate...but even better if the dog has learned the self-control to do it without being asked.

In my experience, this level of self-restraint only comes after lots of repetitions of asking for it, and then many repetitions of standing there waiting for them to remember what you want. But it comes.