After two lessons, the prong collar for my 15 week old pup is now in the trash - I'm not going to give a command, immediately yank on this guy and listen to him yelp. I found out it's just not for me. Thanks to several of you who cautioned me about it earlier. My sincere apology if any of my prior posts offended anyone.

Being a novice, I'm finding it very difficult to settle in on the right direction for my pup and me. I've changed trainers and I'm giving real serious thought to aiming toward AKC compeition obedience as a future goal. This trainer uses a martingale collar for training and positive reinforcement as an approach. She will use a more severe approach for adult dogs out of control, but not on pups. She competes at the Open level in AKC. Hopefully, I have my nose in the right direction now. In January, we will start some group puppy classes (he will be 5 months then).

The reason for posting this is to ask if you would please give me any comments, citations, organizations, advice, etc. you have regarding AKC Competition Obedience so that I can begin learning more about it.

Thank you,

Doyle

Originally posted by Doyle W. Banks:
I'm not going to give a command, immediately yank on this guy and listen to him yelp. I found out it's just not for me.
Doyle Why would you be giving corrections so early? Seems like you missed the learning process. Is this what the trainers at Tom Rose advised? Just put on the collar and teach the commands with corrections?

rickey, yes, this is what the trainers at Tom Rose's do. it's why my corgi had a 4 month vacation after last year's nationals. i was training there, and followed their methods, and he accepted it for a year. and one day he shut down. he would do the work, but there was no life in him, no enjoyment. it was two weeks before nationals. we did obedience and agility. we NQ'd in everything, but had a blast. and i gave him 4 months of no work. played with him. then brought him back slowly and with poitive motivation and he is wonderful.

Save the money on the martingdales and trainers. Get a ball on a string and play with your pup. Read Ed's articles on buidling drive and focus. JMO though.

In my opinion, no matter whether you are doing AKC obedience or schutzhund (I have done both) you should not be GIVING PRONG COLLAR CORRECTIONS to a 15 week old pup. Should you throw the prong collar away?? I don't think so.

There is nothing wrong with letting a pup wear the prong because sooner or later you will probably find that this is the best collar to use as he grows up. But, he shouldn't be getting corrected during obedience "lessons" --especially if he has only had 2 classes.

My pup (same age as Doyle's) wears a prong and a dummy ecollar already. Will I ever use a prong?? Probably. Will I ever use an ecollar? Probably. BUT, not until he is much older and my puppy will be used to wearing the equipment in a positive context.

Rickey is absolutey Right!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Doyle,

I currently do AKC obedience with both my girls and it is great fun for us! Check out my previous post under the subject "how can I find out where shows are and how to enter" located under the CD topic in the AKC obedience forum. In this post, I had explained a lot about what competitive obedience is and included where someone could go for more info. You could also look under the obedience section on AKC's website. http://www.akc.org

As far as using prong collars on pups or other more severe corrections, we only begin with chain training collars when the pups are no younger than 5 months old and then only if the dog needs it. The dogs are much happier to work for positive reinforcement and an up-beat attitude is MUCH prefered in the obedience ring. As the saying goes, "you get more with honey than vinegar!" This is not to say that I do not correct my dog if she needs it, but I don't start with lessons full of corrections. If this is really how the trainers at Tom Rose teach dog training I think I'll look elsewhere. (please no one bash me too hard for that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Doyle, good luck to you with AKC obedience. I do not thinks much of AKC conformation, but the obedience is a great way to bond with your dog and give you both somethis worthwhile and constructive to do!

Kali <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Geeze, I did not look far enough down the list to see the AKC Obedience section. Thanks for the information.

Please understand that it is not my intent to publicly criticize any particular trainer. All I'm saying is this did not work for my puppy or me.

Doyle

I think a lot can be said for reading up all by yourself and having a very good idea of what type of training you want to do before you go finding pro trainers.

So now Doyle you have seen one side of it, going to AKC trainers you are likely to see the other side of it.

Positive training has it's place as well as compulsion later in training. Don't get caught up in the 100% positive school either.

Teach using positive methods only, add distractions to see how far you can get using positive reward, and then use corrections (compulsion) to proof the dog and get 100% reliability. It is the only way to do it. Don't let anybody tell you different.

Good luck and

DON'T GIVE UP ON SCHUTZHUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just go join a club that you can find the help you need. I like club settings better than going to some pro-jerk trainer anyway. . .it takes the village to raise a good working dog and you'll pay less in most cases.

Thanks to all for your input and support. I do, indeed, appreciate it.

Over the next few months I intend to visit several different kinds of competitions, try to meet more of you who compete, visit some clubs and learn.

Doyle

Doyle, St. Louis has 3-4 Schutzhund clubs. I have visited The Mid-Rivers Working Dog club in St. Peters Mo, and have been pleased with what I've seen. For AKC obd, I would go to Judy Stricklands school in downtown Kirkwood. Talk to a Trainer named Jeanine Kerr and explain your situation. She really understands dogs. These are JMNSHO about St. Louis training, although I wasn't aware of the school you mentioned being so harsh on young dogs. Many AKC schools are still teaching the jerk and choke methods because of a lack of good trainers. I'm in the process of reading a new book I just got from Ed, and the one quote I really like is the words of Hediger "Good training is disciplined play" Nothing is more motivationally important in dog training than play. (Applied Dog Behaviour and Training)by Steven R. Lindsay. Good luck, and keep asking questions.