Hi All,

I have some of the same problems as the previous posts and I have gleened some valuable info from them, but I am also having a different problem. My dog, 15 month old Dobie, is starting to walk slightly ahead of me (especially after recieving his treat) and pulling on the leash while heeling. I am using a choke and I correct with that, but it seems like it is getting worse instead of better. Did I miss something in my early training? I used toy/treat modivation early on and now use wieners from mouth and verbal praise. Also, he will look up at me, but only for a short amount of time and then looks away, doesn't seem real focused on me unless he knows I have a hotdog in my mouth. It just seems that lately I am correcting the he** <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> out of him with the choke, but the situation is not getting better so I am starting to think I must have done something wrong early on and I'm looking for ways to either start over or correct the problem.

Thanks, Lela

Its very hard to tell you what is wrong or how to fix it with out watching the dog. The one thing I can say for sure is that the bigest problem normaly is that we humans get in to big of a hurry.
When I have a problem I find that if I drop back in my training it normaly takes care of the problem. Go back to the basics.

Good luck

If he's looking away, he either doesn't understand that it is giving attention that will earn the reward, in which case go back to the basic steps in the other posts, teaching him to just sit at heel and front and give eye contact, OR the weiners aren't sufficient incentive to bother working for them, in which case change your reward.

As for the forging, I would quit with the pops on the choke collar. If it's getting worse, not better, than it is not effective, so stop. Find another way. If he's forging, there's always a reason, and the most common (and hardest for people to admit) is cuz they've rewarded it! If your timing is off a hair, you might be feeding him just as he begins to forge or you're putting your food-hand out in front of him to give him the reward, encouraging him to get a little ahead of you, etc. But if he's not interested in your rewards, he could be forging just out of boredom, not being interested in figuring out how to earn the treat. Are you using any kind of marker when you like his position, such as a consistent word like "YES" or a clicker? If you're not marking the moment that you like, and you're carrying your food in your mouth, chances are that this is the scenario: you see a moment of nice attention and position and you want to reward it, so you reach for your mouth to get a piece of hot dog. THis cues the dog that the food is imminent, so he now CHANGES his position, crowding, forging, whatever, to get to the promised hot dog. And you give it to him in what is now a totally incorrect position. So he thinks that is the position you like, rather than making the correct association with the proper position that he was demonstrating a few seconds ago. My solution is to use a marker word (I use "YES" or a clicker) to mark that instant that is perfect, THEN I follow it up with the primary reinforcer of food or a ball. Then the dog gets the connection very quickly.

Hi Lela,

Your forging situation is not uncommon with working dogs that work in drive. While some accept this behavior, you should understand a dog could work in drive and be accurate. I have posted the problems of toy, gifty or hot dog spitting that allows the dog to focus on the motivational reward itself and not in fact on the handler, on other postings. I am having a problem finding it now but it is in this forum somewhere.

I have also mentioned ho you train a dog is how they tend to stay with regard to obedience. How you train in the beginning could harm your efforts to advance.

Understanding how to accomplish any training goal means you need understand all the components of the exercise and have in your mind what a perfect heeling dog looks like.

If you PM me with an email I will send you to my training program that addresses the steps needed to achieve your goal. If you follow all the instructions, in the order they are found you will, in just a few weeks, have a remarkably improved dog. The training is motivational but carries an emphasis on correct form. It will mean giving up some of the “standard practices” you are currently struggling with. Many people resist change if you are interested in making a great and still happy heeling dog I will help you as I have helped others on this board. I would also be interested on in learning your results in a few weeks after you transform your dog’s focus into good work.

If you would rather stay with your current game plan then I agree you need to back up to the place in training were you started having problems and fix it. Dog training is a real Tortoise and hare race. It always pays to take your time and do it right. I am unmoved by people who what to go ahead in training because they want to feel they are making more progress then their actual training commitment would produce. Once a week training on a field is never good enough but allowing training problems is even more harmful than hardly training.

Let me know.

Dennis, why don't you just post your training plan here for all?

It is comprehensive and complete thus to long..even for me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />