This is probably a dumb and dumber question...

I have a new 10.5 week old German Shepherd girl, and am flat out trying to keep ahead of her. She is the most challenging dog I have ever had by a long shot. I've immersed myself in a stack of reading and information and am getting the grasp of training concepts and how to apply them to this dog but my question is about - when do you stop actively training.

I'm trying to get a hang of the marker system, but have been using other things, including food treats in order to survive. The dog, Sasha, and I have developed the ground rules, so now I can move on a little.

So with the marker training, I've had to work hard to get her to check with me, look into my eyes. She has been so headstrong and distracted that this has made a big difference. After only 2 days she is a lot better. BUt sometimes I want "time out" from being actively in training mode with her. I use the crate, but I don't crate her all the time, just for 2 day time naps and overnight. She's free to go into the crate at other times, which she does, but she's also free to sit by my feet quietly while I'm doing other things.

How can I communicate that we are in "training mode" as opposed to "quietly amuse yourself and leave me alone" mode?

This must be so basic - that I can't find it addressed anywhere at all.

She is a great dog, basically fearless, but very quick to pick up things. I managed to stop her biting in only a day and a half, though she needs small reminders (corrections). It was an increasing problem over about 1.5 weeks as her biting got to be very hard - broken skin and ripped clothes. But she has responded wonderfully to it. This kind of thing I understand, and am continually monitoring, praising and correcting. There was no way I could just use markers to shape her behaviour on that one. Am I right in thinking that it is possible to use both systems, as long as one is consistent in how and when they are used?

Sorry to be so rambling, I am new to this and am struggling to get it into a seamless flow...

 Quote: Mara Pacers

How can I communicate that we are in "training mode" as opposed to "quietly amuse yourself and leave me alone" mode?

When I'm ready to begin a training session with my dog, I ask him "Are you ready????" and he knows whats up. He'll generally offer me a behavior at that point, if I have not given him a command.

When we are finished- it's "That's it, all done", and he knows he's released to go be a dog.

I think 'quietly amuse yourself' is kind of expecting a lot of a 10.5 week old puppy! It will come in time though

Do you have an Xpen? This may go a long ways twords the puppy entertaining herself for a short time. Fill it with super fun toys, and let her loose to play.

About the nipping/biting- rather then correcting a young pup, have you thought about just redirecting her, onto something she SHOULD bite/chew? Keep a rag or tug on you (or 2 or 3...) at all times, and whenever she gets frisky, offer her something appropriate.

When my dog was a pup I found a pacifier in large raw marrow bones. It would keep him busy for a long time.
Also plenty of exercise out in the cold. A sleeping puppy is the easiest puppy.

Thanks for that, It's nice to be reassured.

I always have a chewing toy in reach to substitute, and she has a wide range of different types of toys to play and work at.

Re the biting/nipping, I had tried everything, absolutely everything: re-directing, distraction, moving away (removal of attention), scaling up to the nose tapping, loud sounds, and even pinning her down (I only did this because she was really hurting and starting to do damage). The thing was nothing worked, she wasn't phased by anything.. quite fearless. I tried these things for a week and a half, while her biting just got harder. I was almost in despair by this time. Until I found this site, and immersed myself in the how to stop biting information. At that point I thought I may have landed a hard puppy.

Maybe my term "correction" is wrong. But what finally worked after only a few goes was grabbing her by the scruff/back of the neck, stretching her skin back so she had to open her mouth. It didn't really hurt her, but she really didn't like it and would give a yelp and whimper. It only took about 5-6 goes spread over a day (measured in intensity to stop) to get her to realise biting was not acceptable. I was careful to love her afterward and monitor if she would 'forgive me' and she did. We have bonded even more since then - maybe pack order was finally established :-)

But she is going to be a challenge, and I am so glad I found Leerburg. Thank You

Hi Mara - welcome to the forum!

oy... a 10.5 wk. old pup has a ton of energy! So very glad it is you and not me!!

Marker training will be your friend throughout this dog's life, and kudos to you for beginning so early!

I'm with Kelly on this in regard to corrections... I personally don't believe in correcting a pup this young, however, I do understand that what I think of as corrections may not be at ALL what someone else means. To me, a dog should never be corrected for a behavior unless he/she has been trained to understand that a particluar behavior is wrong - and most young pups don't have a clue in that regard.

Redirecting - giving the pup something he CAN bite chew is really helpful - as Kelly said. Exercise (appropriate) is critical for a pup, as is knowing when the dog is being obnoxious because it is so freakin' tired and simply doesn't know how to best express this other than to bite someone/something (cushions come to mind...)!

To reiterate wat Kelly said - is helpful to give the command of something he DOES know - like "sit" or "down" so that you can reward something positive vs correct for something yet untrained.

Can't wait to meet your pup!

Edited to add we were posting at the same time and I would not personally be putting a pup this young on its back and I understand completely that you were not doing it in anger!

You need to be patient and get better at re-directing - believe it or not!! LOL!! YESSS I can hear the groans now!!

You have what sounds like a great pup... hang in there - this is only a phase. REALLY... just a phase.

Thank You Very Much Barbara,

Yep It is a huge learning curve for me. My previous dogs have all been small dogs, and I never had a problem getting them to a moderate level of training. We had shepherds when I was growing up, but I've never had the physical space for one before now. This bundle of joy, Sasha, is going to be a big dog!!

The biting problem is resolved, and we are both having a really great time, she is very keen for training and exploring, and we do as much outdoor exploring, on and off leash, as is safe for her to handle. I've also noticed the 'too tired to sleep' state, just like a toddler, and know to give her crate time lol.. She carries on just like a toddler, standing and complaining at the bars of their cot too!! I feel like I'm a mum

I think one of the issues is that I live on a farm, and am within sight of the dog all times. That was why my Q about down time. That was good advice. In the marker training info here it talks about always/continually giving the marker for the desired behaviour, rather than only during the training sessions. But I need a rest LOL I'll be using a phrase to start active training and end it from now on.

I want to start early, because I know it is so much easier to start young and ingrain certain unquestioning behaviours now. I'm trying to shape her behaviour. I know that everything takes time.. I'll try and be a good owner

How do I upload a picture like you have at the bottom of your email?

You can meet Sasha right now

Mara>> I will give you an alternate suggestion.

But you absolutely must use marker/clicker training for this to work.

have you charged your mark? If not first do that.


OK. Here is what I did with all my pups. When they come in, there is a soft bed for them. I teach them the place command with the bed. When I say place, I expect them to walk to their bed. Next is to teach them the relax(which is a non competition down). Next is to teach them that every time they go to place, they have to lie down. All this is done with markers.

PLACE: That is the ONLY place anything happens for them. If they lie down and are calm( Not lying down and hyper vigilant) , I capture the calmness and mark reward. Always have a bowl full of treats that you can access quickly.

If they are lying down and not calm, they do not get rewarded for lying down. If they do not want to lie down and are acting up, I will scold them and ask them to go to their "place" , if they comply then mark reward. If not, based on the transgression I will either correct them with a flat collar, or just verbally and , out they go to their isolation cell. 10 minutes later, we have an other go. In a few days, my pups understood that there is only one thing that is rewarding when inside and that is being calm.

It is more important to mark reward lazy , calm state of mind rather than a physical act of lying down.

 Quote: Ramachandran Subramanian

PLACE: That is the ONLY place anything happens for them. If they lie down and are calm( Not lying down and hyper vigilant) , I capture the calmness and mark reward. .....
If they are lying down and not calm, they do not get rewarded for lying down.


....lazy , calm state of mind......

Sorry, Mara, but I'm totally going to take this post off topic for JUST a second to poke at Ram some. (he likes my dog/breed)

HAHAHAHHAHA RAM!!! You obviously don't have a Dutch Shepherd at home!! Lazy state of mind? Psshhhht. Does not exist in my darn brindle beast. Hyper vigilant, YES, always! Just heard this one recently- but Dutchies= Controlled Chaos.

Edited by Kelly Byrd (12/01/2011 11:59 PM)
Edit reason: I love you idea though! Great Plan! just would never work in my house/with my dog. lol.

Using the same markers and treats for "peace and quiet" around the house training as for regular drive building stuff might backfire with the right dog

The treats are just for the learning phase , but once they have learnt there is no reinforcement, just the opportunity to lay around with me in my room.

But then again I do not compete in serious dog sports, so I may be wrong.