Hello everyone,
I adopted another GSD when my first boy, Brando, was 2 years old. The second pup, Bacchus is a white male GSD. He gets along great with Brando. They have never fought (yet) and Brando is very lenient with what he puts up with from this younger male. They eat from the same bowl...not my idea, but the older dog doesn't seem to mind. They play hard and rough. One is 94lbs and the younger is 7 months and 65lbs. OK, that's enough background.

Brando has always barked and has never run away or backed down from anyone even when he was 3 months old. This new pup won't even come into the same room when we have a visitor/visitors he doesn't know. He stays in his pen or hides in the bedroom. He has never been mistreated by anyone and I'm wondering why this behaviour is happening. He won't come to see the visitor even if I repeatly call him...he comes to me and quickly returns to his safe place. I don't want to force anything on him. I even gave the visitor his very favorite treat (he has high food drive) and he still wouldn't come to her. His parents were not timid, is this something he will grow out of? How can I help him be more confident?

Hi, Carolyn,

You'll get lots of help. I just don't want this to go unheeded because it's such a bad idea to allow it:

"They eat from the same bowl...not my idea, but the older dog doesn't seem to mind."

There are probably a dozen reasons, present and future, to stop that immediately.



Can you describe this? Is anyone dominating anyone?

"They play hard and rough."



Are you marker training the younger dog?

I give them each a separate bowl of food but sometimes they eat each others. Brando, for some reason prefers puppy food to his own grain free version. I usually put the younger one in his pen to feed him but if not he will sneak over and get the others food. I will put a stop to it immediately, if you think this will cause fighting in the future.

Usually it's the younger pup that is giving the older one a hard time, biting at his neck, feet and legs. The bigger, older dog is very lenient but will hold him down by the neck when he's had enough.

Forgot to add, I am not marker training at the moment. Just basic obedience, like sit, stay, down, come.

Ms. Padron,

Of course Ms. Sutherland is right - no eating from the same bowl. Bad things can happen... And probably will sooner or later.

I might opine that when the younger dog decides he wants to change from play testing to dominance testing, the die will have been cast. Now, a little play ended by you to demonstrate and reinforce your dominant position is kinda ok.

I think I would not force the younger dog to meet and greet people but that said, I'd probably have the young dog on a leash and keep it in the social setting for a little while - without any petting or 'pushed' introductions - before I let it bolt to its safe places. The dog has to have confidence that you wouldn't let anything bad happen to it.

I have a younger dog I adopted last summer. He is 11 mos old, and he has no trouble puffing up his chest - kinda the opposite of your description. That said, left to his own devices he would turn at least one of my other dogs into a refuge seeker if I let him, and there are at least two other dogs that would be inclined to take issue with him. And I don't like disharmony.

Both sides of the coin need to be managed. "Managed" being the key. Bring the dog - gently but in a leading way - into social situations in a matter of fact manner. Just bring him in and let him be there without being the center of attention. Be in charge. Exude confidence. Be happy. Be gentle.

More coffee.

Mike

Connie,

Not on thread but... Mike Anderson is really Mike A. or Mike Arnold... Apparently a snafu of sorts.

Anyway...

Mike A.



Note: I'll get this fixed, Mike.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (12/22/2011 03:14 PM)
Edit reason: note from Connie

Anderson...Arnold. I would have recognized your sensible advice even with the wrong name.

In addition to the above, I've had good luck socializing a shy dog with visitors by asking the visitors to ignore the dog. I think all that cooing and enticements to interact are just too stressful for a shy dog. But if the humans just don't pay any attention to the dog, and the dog is allowed to observe them without being forced to engage, they calm down soon enough...and may even tiptoe over to inspect the visitor after a while.

If the dog is being shy in this situation (or any situation, really) you should never try to calm their fears by cooing or stroking or telling them it's okay---all that does is acknowledge that there probably is something scary going on and you notice it too. Just ignore any fear behaviors and ratchet up your own display of calm confidence. They'll learn by observing you.

Thank you for the advice, it makes good sense. Next time I will have him on a leash and ask visitors to just ignore him.

On the rough play issue, it does get to a point where they start rearranging the furniture, that's when I say "ENOUGH" and they separate and take a break.

One day I was out watering plants for about 20 minutes. When I came in one of my 8foot sofas was pushed back about 5 feet. Both dogs were no where to be found. When I called them they both stuck their heads out from around a corner down the hall. One sulked into his crate and the other walked slowly inside his x-pen. It was too funny!

You've received good advice from experts!

About the food, that has to stop immediately. It will end badly. I still police meals, even though my recent addition has now been here a few years and there are no problems except for the fast eater glooming his eyeballs onto the dish of the slow eater (which I don't allow). Fifteen seconds to guarantee that there is never a move that either starts a fight or triggers food-guarding behavior in any dog .... well worth it.

Food, chewies, toys .... it's not for the dogs to work out who gets what.

Also, your leadership is reinforced when the food you give is not allowed to be trifled with by another pack member.

But really most important is that is a serious fight is ever going to happen (and you DON'T want that, ever), it's very likely to be over the food being threatened.


Tracey said: " I've had good luck socializing a shy dog with visitors by asking the visitors to ignore the dog. " And also, I would add, make sure that they do it. (Folks will sometimes think they are so dog savvy that such silly restrictions apply only to others. )

Also, besides allowing the dog to just be, and not to become a focus of attention, I really would learn about and start marker training. It's a huge confidence builder.

I also have a shy dog. He used to be scared when we had visitors, but I provided him with a "safe" place to go. I replaced an end table with a card table and put his bed under it. He will go to this place if he is uncomfortable. My guests are are strictly instructed to ignore him.

At Thanksgiving, we had a "new" person to him and he did wonderfully. Same with our Halloween party, where he met two new people. I just don't put any pressure on him and monitor him carefully to make sure he isn't over his threshold. At Thanksgiving, people who know him well commented that he was not only relaxed with all the people in the house, he even seemed to be really happy about it!