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Transfer of Command
#30410 - 02/08/2004 10:19 PM |
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I'm now in a midst of transfering command of my Slovak dog. So far it is ok on sit, plats and hier. This dog is trained on toys and very flashy worker. I had always trained my other dog successfully with food for basic correct positioning in heeling work but this dog has only very average drive for food. She eats but not push for it. One day omiting feeding does not help much.
My question is
1) Should I continue with food? or continue building up the food drive? any suggestions?
2) Should I go back to toys only?
FYI she is almost 2 YO. I like using toys as final rewards in the finished product to elicit the flashy attitude and focus but in the begining transfer of command work, using toys I find the dog a bit hectic and not accurate on the position compared to using food.
Please give me your opinion. Thanks.
J. Cruiser
When the dog is confused, blame not the dog but shoot the handler. |
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Re: Transfer of Command
[Re: James Cruiser ]
#30411 - 02/09/2004 09:51 AM |
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If the dog works well for a toy/ ball I'd continue to use what works.
I primarily used food in the past to train until I started training with Bernhard Flinks - I then made a somewhat clumsy transition to using a ball. I can see advantages/ disadvantages to both the food or toy/ball method, but as your dog shows a marked preference to her toy, use what works!
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Re: Transfer of Command
[Re: James Cruiser ]
#30412 - 02/09/2004 10:14 AM |
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James-
Experiment and try different types of food you train with....If she shows just average food drive then finding the correct food she likes will increase the drive for it.
Ball is fine but I have the same issues as it is difficult to get accuracy as he is so high in drive for it. I still use ball intermittently but use food for positioning and accuracy.
Pat
"Justice"
Natz vom Leerburg SchH II
9/9/01 - 7/29/05
I'll meet you at the rainbow bridge... |
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Re: Transfer of Command
[Re: James Cruiser ]
#30413 - 02/09/2004 09:42 PM |
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Originally posted by Will Rambeau:
If the dog works well for a toy/ ball I'd continue to use what works.
I primarily used food in the past to train until I started training with Bernhard Flinks - I then made a somewhat clumsy transition to using a ball. I can see advantages/ disadvantages to both the food or toy/ball method, but as your dog shows a marked preference to her toy, use what works! Will, Yes I got you perfectly. To train a dog is to use his best drives. However using toys only limits my options. Because she is so high for toy, the positioning especially on heelwork gets a bit hectic and inaccurate and this is the problem I'm facing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
The thing is she does eat from the hand but all she wants is free food..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> no pushing for it. Hmmmm! How to draw her into position is causing me headache.
J. Cruiser
When the dog is confused, blame not the dog but shoot the handler. |
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Re: Transfer of Command
[Re: James Cruiser ]
#30414 - 02/09/2004 09:49 PM |
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Originally posted by Patrick Hennigan:
James-
Experiment and try different types of food you train with....If she shows just average food drive then finding the correct food she likes will increase the drive for it.
Ball is fine but I have the same issues as it is difficult to get accuracy as he is so high in drive for it. I still use ball intermittently but use food for positioning and accuracy.
Pat Patrick, Thanks. I'm doing as you are. I tot I had pulled out the most successful treet in history.....the mightly "Weiner" but sadly this highly potent treet which will cause my other dogs to chomp and eat my fingers away just gets the occassional nibble from this dog. Hmmmmm! This weekend I'm going to try some liver and see if it works.
Otherwise I think I dont have much choice but to train like Will mentioned. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Anyone has more to share on your experience and successes with such a dog? I would not say she has poor drives for food, rather it's just average as she still eats from the hand and occassionally nibble and a tiny bit of push which makes me feel like in heaven already. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
J. Cruiser
When the dog is confused, blame not the dog but shoot the handler. |
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Re: Transfer of Command
[Re: James Cruiser ]
#30415 - 02/09/2004 10:41 PM |
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If you feel it's necessary to train with food, don't feed the dog except while you train. A hungry dog will have more drive for food. Ed's obedience tape show a dog that is way to intense with the ball. The Tom Rose heeling tape comments on the same thing. Some dogs have to much drive for the ball to be able to concentrate on something new.
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: Transfer of Command
[Re: James Cruiser ]
#30416 - 02/09/2004 10:49 PM |
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Have you try cut down his daily portion so that he will be more hungry for food come training time? you could use the cut down portion for training, my dog really enjoy getting treat from my mouth when I spit it out to him, it is almost like triggering his prey drive to catch the food in midair.
Good luck.
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Re: Transfer of Command
[Re: James Cruiser ]
#30417 - 02/09/2004 10:53 PM |
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Sorry, I forgot that you have try starving your dog already.
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Re: Transfer of Command
[Re: James Cruiser ]
#30418 - 02/10/2004 02:05 AM |
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Originally posted by Old earth dog Bob Scott:
If you feel it's necessary to train with food, don't feed the dog except while you train. A hungry dog will have more drive for food. Ed's obedience tape show a dog that is way to intense with the ball. The Tom Rose heeling tape comments on the same thing. Some dogs have to much drive for the ball to be able to concentrate on something new. Yea Bob, That is exactly the problem too ball crazy and very diffucult to position her accurately.
I had to be fair to say that I only have her for 2 weeks and had worked her skinny compared to before. Dont worry, it was fun session for her. I now give her the normal feed portion back just to get her to normal before I do the starving trick again later. Was thinking maybe I was going too fast and is taking a breether now.
Koi Pham,
yea I tried that. Wondered how many days of non feeding is the extreemes experienced by anyone here to hightened the food drive?
J. Cruiser
When the dog is confused, blame not the dog but shoot the handler. |
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Re: Transfer of Command
[Re: James Cruiser ]
#30419 - 02/10/2004 07:38 AM |
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My dog is exact opposite of your dog, he is food crazy and not ball at all, when I do obedience before feeding him, it was hard to get his position right because he is so excited and tremble all over the place, took me about 3 weeks before he even go after the ball, by taking away all his toys and only play ball with him, don't even let him have a bite on his sleeve, now he will go after the ball until my arm wear out, maybe you could leave some hot dog out for a day or two, it gets harden and you could bounce it a little on hard surface, that might look like a moving ball to him. :rolleyes:
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