I have a 10 month old, female GSD. She's a medium drive dog (she's a West German Show/Working line combination), and is very eager to please. I've been training her since she was 12 weeks old and she's coming along beautifully. We're working on training in heavy distraction right now and we're beginning to work off-lead. I've even had her in a down stay for 3 hours and she didn't even think about moving.

We're having no problems at all with her traditional obedience training, however, I'd like to take her for her canine good citizen certification and I'm having trouble with her being "too friendly." There's no doubt in my mind that she would pass the obedience portion of the test with anyone handling her, however, I'm concerned about the portions of the test that include manners around strangers and other dogs. Roxy just loves everyone and everything. For MONTHS I've been working on trying to get her to remain calm when approached by a stranger or another dog. She thinks that anyone walking by us or approaching us is there to receive a tongue bath and play with her. I've finally stopped the jumping, but she just gets so excited when anyone walks by us. I'm concerned about giving her a heavy correction because I don't want to teach her that she shouldn't be friendly with strangers. However, we'll never pass the good citizen test if she decides to play with the other dogs and give a tongue bath to the judge. How should I handle this issue? Will this issue just correct itself as she gets older and loses her puppy enthusiasm?

We do plan on going further in competitive obiedence, but this is our first step.

I would appreciate any help on this issue. Thanks!! SAGlaze@aol.com

Stacie

I teach an AKC class for the public aimed at the people/dog teams passing their CGC. I put my then 6 month old high drive Crok grandson in for the test as a joke. He failed the practice session 2 days before by thinking he needed to get face to face with the greeter. Private e-mail me if you want, as not to take up space here, and I can give you a few things we try with dogs. By the way, my class is the positive motivation one combined with the Ray Hunt horse training theory of the right way is easy, the wrong way is hard. PS Jaden, the pup, passed with flying colors and was the best dog there, according to the tester. He as also the youngest. Cathy, Chance, Jaden and angel Zoey snuggled deep inside my heart

I taught dozens of CGC classes while I was an instructor for the Atlanta Obedience Club. Not my favorite class to teach, since I never cared for yuppie dog owners. But I digress...

I made this observation early on regarding the CGC test:
The CGC test is geared towards low drive ( or at the most, medium drive ) dogs. I've owned several high drive dogs in the past that I was able to title in multiple venues, but would fail a CGC test. I've also seen this happen to several other people with hard-core working dogs. And I'm not talking about dogs like Fetz ( obviously! ) but just dogs with strong drive, and those very drives were what made the dogs good for Schutzhund or high level OB.

It's actually gotten to the point where I view a CGC title as a liability, as most of the dogs that get that title lack the drive needed to succeed in a higher level venue.

That's just my opinion, though. From a pet owner's standpoint, the CGC is worth the time and effort to get.

Will. I hope that I don't need to take offense. I'm certaily no yuppie. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Roxy is a medium drive dog and excels in obedience. She's the youngest dog in her Intermediate obedience class and far exceeds the older dogs. She's not suited for Schutzhund, so I was planning on doing competition obedience with her. It was suggested to me that I do the CGC as practice for the obedience ring. I'm a new handler, but have many of Ed's DVDs and work with a fantastic trainer in my area. I guess I'm doing something right, since she's the star of her Intermediate class, but I'm nervous about being in the ring. This was really supposed to be more practice for me then for her. I despise failure.

Should I just get over my nervousness, skip the CGC and go straight to obedience competitions?

No, Stacie, that was in no way meant towards you ( how would I know if you're a yuppie? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

The disadvantage to teaching CGC classes was that there'd be tons of fairly novice dog owners in the class ( I prefer to teach Open/ Utility classes, needless to say ), and the classes were held in an upscale area of Atlanta, hence the yuppies. If you pointed out what said yuppie was doing wrong in handling their dog, no matter how gentle you attempted to make the comment, the yuppies would write "hate letters" to the club board ( of which I was a member ) about how mortally embarrassed they were having their flaws pointed out in public, blah, blah, blah. Ahhh...I love hyper-sensitive idiots with time on their hands. :rolleyes:

Eventually, I began to include a speech at the start of my orientation/ first class asking class members if they'd take offense if I used them and their dogs as an example so that other class members could learn from their mistakes.

Stacie, if you get ring nerves ( hey, we've *all* been there! ) may I suggest that you read:
Conquering Ring Nerves:
A Step-by-step Program for all Dog Sports
Book by Diane Peters Mayer

Now, I feel that the information in this book could be fit into a 15 page pamphlet myself, so I'd suggest checking it out from the library as opposed to buying it. But that's just me...

Thanks Will. I'll pick up that book this week.

I think that anyone would be embarassed to be the class example of what not to do, but you gotta hate someone who has nothing better to do then write a complaint letter. Especially when they were flat out wrong!

I was there on one occassion in puppy class (just couldn't stop myself from bending over her cute little face while praising a good heel), but that just made me work harder to be the example of what you should do!

Believe me, my comments were mild, along the lines of "Hold up everyone, here's a good example of what I was talking about - watch < insert student's name here > and her dog try the sit exercise".
Apparently, that comment is as offensive as an insult about someone's mother... :rolleyes:

Oh course, Ed has pointed out to me at various seminars that I take constructive criticism very well, it was a weird compliment from the big guy. Of course, you go to seminars to get a critique from someone better than yourself, that's how you learn! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Plus, I have a very thick skin ( not to mention waistline...)

I'll tell my trainer, Wes, that he should feel lucky that he doesn't teach the people that you taught! His criticism is a bit harsher. I just heard him tell a VERY high drive Rott owner how irresponsible they were for not bringing the Rott for training until it was a year old; that he didn't think that they were EVER going to be capable of handling the dog (they objected to corrections with a prong collar); and that they should immediately give their dog to someone who knows what they're doing.

I agreed with Wes 100%. This dog was amazing, despite his lack of obedience. In 15 minutes, Wes had the dog starting to track. That dog was really wasted on those people!

It always surprised me to see people who pay a trainer to help them learn how to train their dog, but then think that the trainer is wrong the moment they receive any criticism! If you knew what you were doing, why are you paying $25 an hour?!

My husband and I have done the CGC class with a couple of our schutzhund dogs and they have passed fine. I just did a class with my young workingline male who earned his title at 8 months. He did just fine. I would not describe any of them as lacking in drive at all.

Trish,
I wandered through your site and took a look at your dogs and the news about your dogs that ya'll posted at: http://www.tritonkennels.com/pages/links.htm.
You guys have earned some BH's on your dogs, and ya'll have bought some already titled dogs. Nothing wrong with that, but please read closely what I wrote:

"I've also seen this happen to several other people with hard-core working dogs. And I'm not talking about dogs like Fetz ( obviously! ) but just dogs with strong drive, and those very drives were what made the dogs good for Schutzhund or high level OB.

It's actually gotten to the point where I view a CGC title as a liability, as most of the dogs that get that title lack the drive needed to succeed in a higher level venue."

*higher level venues* being the key words here. Any dog alive can basically pass a BH and a CGC, that's doggie kindergarden. No schutzhunder alive worth his salt would brag about a BH, that'd just be embarrassing.
I'm talking about high level SchH dogs that are competitive at a Regional level or above. Your view of what drive is and what my view of drive is are likely two entirely different concepts.
Every pet owner thinks their dog has drive - they do, it's just usually not the drive of a working dog. And I see showline dog owners talk about drive all the time, but you don't see those dogs with the high scores now, do you? Under an honest judge, that is.
Feel free to prove me wrong by throwing a SchH III on your boy under a tough judge, that'll be the best demonstration of his drive.
Good luck!