Is it typical for S&R groups not to accept dogs which had ANY Schutzhund training?

Not here it isn't.

My TD/Vice president is also the TD for MESARD. Both of her dogs are SAR dogs and BOTH have had SchH training.

Alex attained his SchH1 this weekend.

Those two dogs have found more dead (and live) people than all the other dogs in the state combined.

(we joke that she needs to get little stick figure people to put on her van... standing ones for the live ones, and little ones laying down for the others) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well... I didn't think this would be a deterrent either. I've been looking for local (Wisconsin)S&R activity for months and today literally ran into them. They informed me that SchH-trained dogs are not accepted into the program because they want "to stay on the safe side". I wonder how common is this "philosophy" nationwide?

Any S&R group that flat disallows a dog just because it has had schutzhund training is not worth joining. Its a reflection of a group of people with VERY RED NECKS and a total lack of understanding of dog training.

Now there are some schutzhund dogs that should not be S&R dogs - but not a lot.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ed Frawley:
Now there are some schutzhund dogs that should not be S&R dogs - but not a lot.

Oh, I'm very well aware of that, but we are talking about two 13-mos-old highly sociable bitches... Very disappointing. I guess I won't get to wear camouflage pants... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think some states don't allow them

It has do do with perceptions and always generates big arguments on SAR discussion lists where number of folks who handle other breeds do not understand the sport or its value.

Some of the shutzhund people have made the perception bad....I know NCSARDA which is a big team in NC with two units is adamant about NOT having shutzhund dogs because one of the previous members had his stomach ripped open by a "shutzhund" dog during a SAR excercise..the scar is quite hideous...clearly a properly trained shutzhund dog would not do this, but it made an unfortunate impression and generalization.

Arent there liability insurance issues too? Dont get me wrong, I would RATHER train in shutzhund as I think it would prove to me the level of control I had over my dog under situations you dont encounter or set up in other training....but I am not going to lie about previous training to a team.

There are NO STATES than ban Schutzhund dogs in S&R - this is bad information.

As I said - any group that does not allow dogs based strictly on the fact that the dog has had Schutzhund training is a group that lacks experience. It is not a difficult thing to temperament test a dog to see if the nerves are appropriate for the work. Certainly a S&R group of any merit should be able to do this. But then most S&R groups focus on air scenting and not tracking - what does that tell you?

In Canada NO ONE can use a dog in a search unless it has been certified by a RCMP K9 handler. The dogs must pass a level one RCMP tracking certification. This test would eliminate about 98% of all S&R dogs in the states. What does that tell you about the quality of S&R groups in the states?

Groups like you talk about quickly forget that police dogs all across this world are used to find lost people.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Nancy Jocoy:
....but I am not going to lie about previous training to a team.

Nancy,

I have no intention of lying about my SchH experience—I do not consider it a dirty little secret. On the contrary, stupid me, I volunteered this information, thinking it would be to my advantage because:
a. my dogs have already proved their temperament and trainability and already have a foundation in tracking;
b. I know HOW to train dogs, which is not a small accomplishment. Once you know how to drive a car, switching from a Ferrari to a truck (or vice-versa, if you prefer <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) is just a matter of adjustment.
c. It shows I’m capable of long-term commitment, which is a requirement in both disciplines.

Originally posted by Renee Felknor:
Nancy,
I have no intention of lying about my SchH experience—I do not consider it a dirty little secret. I did not mean to imply that you would, and I apologize if you took that impression -- I just meant that the issue came up for me and I decided *not* to go the schutzhund route as SAR was more important for me. I have had some people tell me to just do it and lie.

I hear the comment not to join such a team but sometimes, that is your only option. I had to drive 4-5 hours to train with *this* team as it was.

And I mean to say that *some* schutzhund people do little to raise the perception of schutzhund to the general public. Had I NOT met SAR people who do the sport and seen their dogs and the level of control they have without sacrificing drive, I would have thought that there was no real value in the sport.

Sorry, but I have met some real red-necks who participate in the sport and give a bad impression for the rest of you. And, if you are not in the GSD community, there is not much interest to try to understand what it is all about.

Nancy wrote:
“Sorry, but I have met some real red-necks who participate in the sport and give a bad impression for the rest of you.”

LOL, I would be the first one to admit that the sport does have its share of rednecks... But I assure you that I don’t even remotely resemble a redneck and try my best not to act like one—at least in public <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> .

Nancy wrote:
“And, if you are not in the GSD community, there is not much interest to try to understand what it is all about.”

I would wholeheartedly agree with this statement IF that was the case. However, it’s NOT. Out of 17 dogs on that particular team 12 are GSDs. What’s even more puzzling is that one full third of team members are police officers/K-9 handlers.

It may be that what I heard yesterday was the opinion of one member only and maybe I even misunderstood what was being said, so I e-mailed the leader of the team this morning asking to clarify their position. I haven’t heard back yet.

I am not trying to rock the boat, after all I’m not an expert on SAR. What bothers me is that I obviously was living in some kind of a la-la-land for the last 10 years, thinking that by training and raising my dogs in SchH I was contributing to conservation of working ability in the GSD. It is one thing ducking bullets from true rednecks who insist the SchH dogs are not REAL, cuz they don’t bite for real, and it’s another thing to be told by “professionals” that my dogs are not suitable for work by virtue of being evaluated for their working ability <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> . IT DON’T MAKE NO SENSE TO THIS HERE REDNECK.