The other thread about the health of mixed breeds has me wondering again about something.

It's a question that came up frequently when we adopted a street dog pup last year. The common question was always "what's he a mix of?"

I haven't got a clue, although there's clearly someting pit-ish about his head. But my guess is that Cinco has never had a "purebred" dog as an ancestor ever. He, like lots of dogs, is the result of hundreds of generations of random breedings of non-purebred dogs.

So my question is: are all non-purebred dogs actually a "mix" of some identifiable lines of purebred? Or do you suppose that there are some dogs that are just "dog?" The whole idea of breed "purity" is a pretty recent thing...and some breeds aren't even that old.

As breeds coalesced and individuals were selected for breeding pools...there must have been a lot of dogs that were never part of any purebred gene pool, right?

It's probably more a semantic issue than anything. But it's something I sort of wondered about...expecially when people start guessing that Cinco is a mix of some wildly impossible (to me) breeds.

Discuss.

I personlly think it's funny when people try to assign breed information to dog that are obviously just mutts. At the pound you always see "lab mix" or "pit bull mix" posted on the information cards and I always think "who the heck can really know that?" To me its just "DOG" because there is probably 100 different breeds mixed into the mutts that you see today.

Now you can obviously look at some dogs and tell that there may be alot of lab or shepherd in them. To me the only time that breed information matters is when you buying a breed specific dog (i.e. you want a registered German Shepherd so you go out and buy the specific dog that you want.) But in a situation where it is just a mixed breed dog then I would rather the guess of what breeds that dog is not be included in their description.

I just wonder how many people pass by the "pitt bull mix" in the pound because they assume that the dog might be aggressive when it might be the sweetest dog in the world. When it comes to mixed breeds the individual dog should be evaluated and not the guess of what breeds were mixed into it.

People think Logan is a pitt-shepherd or shepherd-doberman or better yet a "timberolf"

But yeah most people's guessing of breeds is inaccurate anyway. I'll look at a pic posted of a obvious husky-lab but its listed as a husky-shepherd. That annoys me.

I'm not trying to sound conceited here, but I'm good at it, maybe its because I am artist and I have seen many examples of the same breed?....I'll tell when its simply an H-57. Or they may have as many ingredients as Dr Pepper who knows. Why is it that nobody wants to hear its an undefinable mutt? Personally I love mutts...why does it have to be "purebred", who cares! Its a dog!

Yeah, the labels they put on mixed breeds in shelters can be pretty funny. Cinco, for example, was listed as a "corgi mix" !?

There's nothing about him that is in the least corgi-like. In their defense, I think they'll put almost anything to avoid having to put "pit mix" because there are many communities where the dog would be banned based on that ID.

After we adopted him, I got the wildest guesses from people--cattle dog, Doberman, one lady thought she saw some Chesapeake Bay Retriever. (what?)

Years and years ago we adopted a teeny pup from the pound that was labeled "Daschund mix." He quickly grew into a dog that was pretty easily identified by anybody as a Dalmation mix. Waist-high, white with black spots. Daschund...Dalmation. They both start with D, right?

well If its a mixed breed and you didnt see both parents you cant really know if it was a bonafide mutt for however many generations.I dont think you can make any blanket statements about mixed breeds like "they all are came from mixes" because it could be any combination of mixed with mixed, mixed with pure or two different purebreds. My husbands dog is a border collie lab mix which we actually got from the owner of both dogs and met both parents. Everyone thinks he is a pit mix because they are going off of color and hair length.

Mary, I think you're exactly right. My wondering has to do with your "bonafide mutt" idea (a term I like), and for dogs with an unknown lineage.

Obviously your husband's dog is a mix of two known breeds. Breed that dog with a labradoodle, and you'd still know what breeds that offspring descended from...and you could still call it a "mixed breed" (in that case, a border collie-lab-poodle-lab mix).

I'm curious about the idea of a dog that's not really a "mix" of anything discernible? (and whether that state is possible.)

And, I suppose, are there dogs that have always been outside the gene pool of purebred dogs, meaning they aren't really a "mix" of any pure breed, by today's definition of breed.

Most of the dogs in the world have always been non purebred. If you asked somebody about a random dog roaming the streets of modern Mumbai, or a dog living on a farm in Nebraska of 1850, the question of "what kind of mixed breed is it?" would seem like an irrelevant question. There were never any "purebreds" for the dog to be a "mix" of.

I think I'm not explaining my (admittedly silly) question very well.

Shelter s have to rely on the information from the person bringing in the dog. people who adopt want to know what breed the dog is. Many times potential adopters ask what the dog has been mixed with,I have no idea,another dog I suppose.

The dogs wandering around in the third world are partly the offspring of 'primative' dogs - who are not breeds, nor have ever been. With some more modern breeds / crossbreeds mixed in.
Search pariah dogs for more details.

As far as the western world goes - you aren't likely to get many dogs from a genepool of never pedigreed dogs. You might get, joe's mutt was bred with next doors lab. Giving you a lab X. That lad X is bred to mutts for a few generations, becoming a mutt. Then mutt is bred to someones shepherd/pit mix - chances are some pups will resemble a shepherd/pit mix, then breed to a lab - you may end up with a lab X, or pit X.

Chances are most mutts have pure-bred dogs. Identification of dogs is made on phenotype - rather than genotype.
In the old days anything not a pedigree was considered a mongrel, now we label them because most people would prefer a terrier to an unknown mutt.

My friend Karen has a dog that looks a bit like a patterdale, bit like a poodle, bit like a spaniel. When people ask what he is, Karen says that it's a 'Bitza'. Bits o'this, bits o'that...

You see a lot of these "just dogs" in the middle east. Over there, where you won't find a purebred dog outside of a large city, and extremely few of them at any rate, there are thousands of feral dogs running around. I used to try and imaging seeing a breed or 2 mixed in to create whatever shape dog I was looking at. The truth is, those dogs were never pure bred anything. They are just dogs.

Its the same way in Mexico, they are mixed beyond all recognition and have generally returned one type of generic dog, generally yellow or black, or black and white (though its usually hard to tell because of the full body mange) and they look alot like the dogs they have found preserved from ancient times.
I wouldnt doubt those dogs would be healthier and more long lived than most dogs if given proper nutrition. I knew some people had one they only fed tortillas and ramen noodle soup because they didnt know any better and it lived to the age of 8.