Was at schutzhund club yesterday ,training for upcoming trial BH in a month.
My male rottweiler is aprox 16 months old.
Someone made a suggestion that once the trial is out of the way they test my dog for natural aggression to see what my dog is made of by flanking him.
Is this a common practise?
My goal is to get the dog on the helper and do well at protection.
Thanks Brent

I'm not sure what you mean by flanking him, but testing a dog for defense and prey drive is a part of starting bite work for the protection aspect of Schutzhund.

Flanking means the helper pinches the dogs side to provoke a reaction.

I'm not real up on defense training...but I do recall most people have a stranger approach in a threatening way and when the dog barks they go away....gradually more and more pressure is put on the dog, they get closer and linger before retreat...eventually the dog has to bite the helper before they go away. This is all done after loads of work in prey and not until the dog is mature enough to even show defense drive, if it has any.

Thanks Tresa
Appreciate your post.

Would like some expert advice on this subject from dog sport people that have been there and done protection sports.

Sounds a bit old school to me. Not that old school is necessarily bad. Sometimes it's still best but without knowing my dogs I wouldn't want someone jumping right into defense with them. They better have a really good read on dogs but that's not something the inexperienced owner can usually see.
A Rottie can still be immature at 16 months.
Start the training in prey only and build to defense as the decoy sees the dog can handle it.
"IF" you decide to do this then watch for avoidance in your dog. Any at all and I'd find another trainer that does a lot of prey work.
Hopefully Will R will see this. If he tells me I'm crazy, well...that's besides the point but I'd listen to his opinion. ;-)

 Quote: Bob Scott

They better have a really good read on dogs but that's not something the inexperienced owner can usually see.

HUGE statement. The first thing a good helper learns is how to read, and if he can't do that, he need not be allowed to encourage defense at all.

Bob and Duane thanks for posting.
After reading your posts wil put the defence on hold ,better to be safe than sorry.

Brent

 Quote: Bob Scott

Hopefully Will R will see this. If he tells me I'm crazy, well...that's besides the point but I'd listen to his opinion. ;-)

I'd say you're crazy and agree it has nothing to do with the question.

Your advice however, in my opinion, is dead-on. I'm not opposed to old school, but even in my old school that isn't the way we started.

DFrost

 Quote: David C.Frost

 Quote: Bob Scott

Hopefully Will R will see this. If he tells me I'm crazy, well...that's besides the point but I'd listen to his opinion. ;-)

I'd say you're crazy and agree it has nothing to do with the question.

Your advice however, in my opinion, is dead-on. I'm not opposed to old school, but even in my old school that isn't the way we started.

DFrost

Coming from a trainer that started teaching guard/scout/ detection/protection work with dogs when I was just a few yrs out of high school....but still younger then me.

Thanks David.......mostly!

I'm no expert in defense training.

I'll give my 2 cents though for what it's worth.

Breed maturity, personality, temperament, drive and nerves all play a part in the way any dog interprets a threat. Social dogs will take more pressure to put into a defensive mindset, a nervous dog will take less pressure. A dog with no drive will be quicker to go into avoidance then one that has alot. A pup with no experience from life, and learning how to deal with stress, is more apt to go into avoidance and remember it.

When you talk about defensive drive training, your starting to mess with the natural insinct for flight or fight. Your taking flight away, and making fight the only option. If your pup isn't mature enough, doesn't have the drive, doesn't have the temperament, personality , or nerves for it. Then you can damage the dog permanently. This is a big reason why what so many "trainers" out there are doing is so wrong. They're putting dogs in situations that they shouldn't be, and trying to pass the dog off as a protection or guard dog. Or even putting a dog on a sleeve that shouldn't be.

It's also why it's difficult to find a real protection dog, one with all the right components is hard to find. Then you need the right trainer, and to get them both together. Sometimes that's a task in and of itself.

Personally, imo ... I would wait until he is both physically and mentally mature, probably around the age of 2-2 1/2. Then you can start defensive training, as long as he has the right components for it. If they whip out a table, it's time to walk.

If I were you, I'd be working that prey drive, and ob towards a SchH3 title.

And of course, all JMO!