I am very new to dog training.

I just started Michael Ellis' motivation series, and could use some advice. I have a 2 y/o GS/heeler mix that I adopted 6 months ago. I taught him sit, stay, down, and a few other commands. He has dominant tendencies, and so I have done some of the ground work outlined in the articles on this site. However, he is hard to motivate, and did not enjoy the learning of his current skill set, hence the change in methods.

Should I use the same release command for marker training that he already knows from previous training? And if so, should I be carrying around treats all the time in case I use the word (like if I need him to sit/stay on a walk)?

On a different note, any suggestions for training "That's enough" command? He is very reactive to people coming to the door, whether they knock or not. I want him to feel that protecting/alerting the house is OK, but I am having problems getting him to back off when I tell him to. Right now when he rushes the front door, I first praise him, then call him to my side, tell him to "hush" or "enough". He quits barking, but still growls.

The same thing happens with visitors. I have tried putting him up until the guests are settled, but he just growls and barks at them when he sees them. I know that these territorial instincts are due to my presence. (When I am not around, his reactions are minimal to none). When he growls at visitors I correct him with a stern "no" and a jerk of his choke chain. I have to repeat this mutliple times. He doesn't respond much, so I wind up putting him in his kennel (which is where he can't see the guests). Any suggestion on a better way to deal with this would be great.

Thanks,
Laurel

I have two "mark and release" markers; one from previous training ("Okay"), and one reward marker ("Yes") that I added when I updated my training.
I had always used "Okay" as a release marker and a reward marker. When I refined my system several years ago, I realized I needed a new reward marker, so I added "Yes" as a reward/ release marker, just as it is used in the Ellis videos. I still use "Okay" to release from obedience when the release is the reward.

Ex; We are training/reinforcing the heel command. When the dog adjusts to the correct position, I mark with "yes" and reward, then continue with the training. However, if we are heeling on a walk, and I want to let her have a little freedom, I'll release her with an "okay" for her to break her heel and do what she likes.

BTW, you need to carry treats and train with your dog constantly. However, every mark doesn't have to be a reward mark. You can bridge behaviors with an intermediate mark, and release the dog to freedom as the reward, when the opportunity presents itself. Every moment is a learning instance.

It sounds like you're sending mixed signals about the doorbell and visitors. You're "allowing" the dog to alert bark, but then you want to teach him to not alert when you've heard enough. What you are asking can be done, but you need to decide exactly what behavior you want and be consistent. If you're encouraging the dog to alert, then that's pretty much what you can expect anytime someone comes over, welcomed visitor or otherwise.

You will need to establish a much stronger foundation with your dog before attempting to manipulate instinctive drives, such as defense and territoriality.

Thanks for clearing up the mark issue. That makes sense.

But about the doorbell/visitor topic: Except that dogs trained in competitive sports like schutzhund have an "out" signal that means it is time to stop. Why would this be any different? And there is a difference between being alert with guests around and growling at them because he has decided they are a threat.

I know I am very new to this, and I don't hope to even get close to schutzhund, but I wondered if there were some techniques that applied the same principles I could utilize at my (and my dog's) level. I figured I am not the only person in the world who wants their dog to stop barking on command...

 Quote: Laurel Plemmons

Except that dogs trained in competitive sports like schutzhund have an "out" signal that means it is time to stop. Why would this be any different? And there is a difference between being alert with guests around and growling at them because he has decided they are a threat.

I know I am very new to this, and I don't hope to even get close to schutzhund, but I wondered if there were some techniques that applied the same principles I could utilize at my (and my dog's) level. I figured I am not the only person in the world who wants their dog to stop barking on command...

You can definitely teach a dog to quit barking on command. My dog will "leave it" on command, but I don't encourage her when she is alert barking (you said in your first post that you praised). I may allow her to alert bark for a moment, but then I call her off.

What you have to recognize is the drive the dog is in. Schutzhund dogs don't just bark, hold, or out on command; it looks pretty, but they do it for a reason, they are in prey drive (not defensive or territorial), and their drive is being manipulated by a handler. I can't teach my dog to bark in defense drive, then quit just because I say so. The dog is going to react anytime it feels defensive, if that's what I have reinforced. I have to know what makes her start and what will make her stop, and I do that by moving hesr from one drive to another.
By praising the dog when he's alerting, you're bringing up his defensive drive, which reinforces the alert barking. Try letting him bark for a moment, then tell him to stop.
This will be easier when you have a strong foundation with the dog and he understands exactly what you want.

I am no real trainer but I have managed to teach one of my dog to alert bark.

Any time there is noise at the door he got rewarded for barking. Then command "off" and dog was put on leash so he had to off. The leash was on for many months. He is not allowed to bark at people in the house just at the sound from the door/window.

I had to practice at first with just someone ringing the door, dog barked then off but never open the door. Then after the off was "in place" (many days/weeks of practice) the person was let in but the dog was on leash.

It worked for me but it did takes some time and it is one step at the time. Reward the bark, reward the off. The dog need to know what is expected from the command before you add a visitor.

Thanks Duane for explaining. We have a lot of work to do, but I have a better understanding of how to start getting there.

"I just started Michael Ellis' motivation series, and could use some advice. "



Laurel, with which DVD?

A couple of points:

I want to say that to my mind, for a brand-new marker trainer, I think that every marker is (I mean should be) a terminal bridge (a reward marker is one way to say it). Here's why: I think introducing intermediate bridges happens a bit later, and right now may cloud the basics.

So for now, I would advise that you postpone intermediate bridges.

Also, you never give an empty marker (your marker means "reward coming").



"Should I use the same release command for marker training that he already knows from previous training?"

No. They don't mean the same things. Your marker is both "reward coming" AND the release from the command. I would choose a new word, and make sure it's not one you use often in normal dog "conversation." "Good" as a terminal bridge (marker) is generally NOT good because of its ubiquitous nature in talking to your dogs. "Yes" can be much better, as mentioned, but not if it was your release word in a different training method (as I think Duane mentioned).

I agree with Duane that you're not ready for the alert bark and stopping on command. This can definitely be done, but right now based on your descriptions, this should be put on hold and the dog shouldn't be put in this position.

Doorbell behavior is practiced, but not until you have some really good basic ob, in my opinion (and a bunch of pack leadership that isn't really in place yet).

Can I go back for a second though, to "which DVD do you have", or what have you watched in the free streaming video? If you didn't start with 219 or 220, then I urge that you back up.

http://leerburg.com/219.htm

http://leerburg.com/220.htm

These are the first two, and for someone brand new to markers, I strongly suggest 219 (pre-Ellis). A little familiarity with markers would make 220 a good first one.

JMO, though!

Keep asking questions!!

What Connie said!!!
It's too early in your training to be adding bridges. Make sure BOTH you and the dog have a total understand of marker training before you start adding bridges.

I see no reason for an empty marker. That marker word/click should always mean a reward is coming otherwise you devalue the marker.

Teaching the bark and no bark at this time is also too much. Work on attention from the dog and reward that. Correcting the dog for what you just praised it for is too much until you both understand the system and you get consistency with it.

Change methods = change marker word and commands!

Connie, I have finished watching 220, and read the article/ebook "the power of training dogs with makers." I knew the concept of marker training, I just didn't know how the mechanics worked. My next one, once this foundation is firm, is "the power of playing tug with your dog".

Ok, well I think I will back up a few steps then and change his release word for marker training. The door barking can wait, but the barking at guests cannot. I just watched the video on the difference between training corrections and pack corrections, and have "dealing with dominant and aggressive dogs" coming the mail I can also watch it On demand. At the very least, I will continue putting him in his kennel while guests are around while we build a better relationship and stronger pack structure.

Thanks for all the advice!