christy mascari wrote 12/11/2012 05:36 PM Soft stool??? #370460 - 12/11/2012 05:36 PM
christy mascari Webboard User Reg: 11-12-2012 Posts: 178 Loc: midwest Offline	Our 18 mo. old female GSD has a long history of soft stool. When we got her from the breeder at 3 mos she had giardia, she has since contracted it 2 other times. Her last stool sample came back negative, but she continues to have very soft stools. When I asked the vet, he wanted us to buy the Science Diet that he sells. I knew better and put her on The Honest Kitchen's Force and added digestive enzymes. Not much improvement. We did this for about 4 mos, and could no longer afford it, so started stretching THK out by adding half Solid Gold's Sun Dancer (kibble). We give her 1 cup THK and 1 cup Sun Dancer morning and evening. Only her a.m. stool is firm, the afternoon and evening are totally runny. She is the correct weight, and very healthy otherwise. It just doesn't seem healthy to have loose stool daily. Any thoughts?? PS-I know raw is probably the best way to go, but I am a longtime vegetarian, and cannot bring myself to handle so much raw meat
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/14/2012 06:05 PM Re: Soft stool??? [Re: christy mascari ] #370463 - 12/14/2012 06:05 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	"Her last stool sample came back negative, but she continues to have very soft stools." 1. Tested how? You know that giardiasis is infamously tricky to diagnose (because of false negatives*) and often recurs? Also, Science Diet (and in fact the best food in the world, which S/D certainly is not) cannot do anything to cure giardiasis. 2. How soft? Pudding, liquid, or part firm and part pudding, or what? 3. Has she ever had formed firm logs? How long ago? 4. What happens if she is on a diarrhea diet (very soupy overcooked white rice with a little skinless white chicken added) for several days? What about smaller meals? * "Because Giardia cysts are only shed intermittently and not constantly, a Giardia-free fecal examination does not necessarily rule out giardiasis. Two or three negative fecal tests, done at least several days apart, usually are conducted before a Giardia infection is ruled out. Of course, a positive fecal examination is usually diagnostic of the parasite, depending upon the skill of the person looking at the sample." http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Health-Center/Digestive-Disorders/Giardia/Diagnosis.aspx
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christy mascari wrote 12/11/2012 06:48 PM Re: Soft stool??? [Re: christy mascari ] #370464 - 12/11/2012 06:48 PM
christy mascari Webboard User Reg: 11-12-2012 Posts: 178 Loc: midwest Offline	The vet said she should be retested every three months because of cysts (giardia) in her intestines? (or something like that) He sent the sample out to a lab, even though he has a scope in house. She has been given PanaCure three times. At 3, 6, and 14 months old. I don't EVER recall any "solid logs" They vary throughout the day. They look log-like, but are just mushy-squishy. She had an episode at 7 mos old with horizontal brown liquid. The vet gave her an injection, then some anti-diarrhea pills. For five days we did rice and cottage cheese. Never really solid stool, but firmish. No diagnosis was given. This morning it was kinda firm, but this afternoon was runny. Thanks for discussing such an unsavory subject with me.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/11/2012 07:48 PM Re: Soft stool??? [Re: christy mascari ] #370465 - 12/11/2012 07:48 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	"This morning it was kinda firm, but this afternoon was runny." Does "kinda firm" mean formed but soft? Does "runny" mean soft, or brown water? What happens if she is on a diarrhea diet (very soupy overcooked white rice with a little skinless white chicken added) for several days? Is she now as bad as last time she had Panacur? PS "Thanks for discussing such an unsavory subject with me." HA! I couldn't possibly count the poop threads we have had here. LOL MANY people here have discussed diarrhea, constipation, and everything in between, and even examined poop photo links. It comes with the territory. I've even had dog-poop close-up photos emailed to me -- dozens of times.
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christy mascari wrote 12/11/2012 08:31 PM Re: Soft stool??? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #370469 - 12/11/2012 08:31 PM
christy mascari Webboard User Reg: 11-12-2012 Posts: 178 Loc: midwest Offline	Connie, I promise NOT to send any photos!! LOL She's not as bad as when she needed the Panacure, I would call it more of a chronic problem. Kinda firm = formed but very soft. Runny = pudding. She has only had the brown water that one time. To me, her poop looks undigested, even though we give her quality digestive enzymes (from Leerburg) with each meal. The Honest Kitchen's food is the consistency of thick mashed potatoes, that's about the same way it comes out. I can even see lots of undigested bits in there. Also, she does enjoy eating her own poop as a delicacy on occasion. We go out with her every time and pick it up immediately to limit this. But maybe it it a symptom of whatever is wrong with her. I really want to get to the "bottom" of this, as it's been going on for such a long time. The vet has been no help. I figured you all would be a much better resource!
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/11/2012 09:16 PM Re: Soft stool??? [Re: christy mascari ] #370471 - 12/11/2012 09:16 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	What happens if she is on a diarrhea diet (very soupy overcooked white rice with a little skinless white chicken added) for several days?
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/11/2012 09:20 PM Re: Soft stool??? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #370472 - 12/11/2012 09:20 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	"To me, her poop looks undigested, even though we give her quality digestive enzymes (from Leerburg) with each meal. The Honest Kitchen's food is the consistency of thick mashed potatoes, that's about the same way it comes out. I can even see lots of undigested bits in there." How much in advance are you mixing the THK? Minutes, hours, what? Are you using warm water? I ask this because this is not uncommon and I'll explain the change to make based on your reply.
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christy mascari wrote 12/12/2012 05:22 AM Re: Soft stool??? [Re: christy mascari ] #370481 - 12/12/2012 05:22 AM
christy mascari Webboard User Reg: 11-12-2012 Posts: 178 Loc: midwest Offline	I mix it one meal ahead of time. For example, her breakfast was mixed, and refrigerated last night after she ate her dinner, which was prepared after breakfast yesterday. We usually microwave it for 45 seconds and then stir in the digestive enzymes. then, I add a cup of Sun Dancer. We haven't tried the rice and chicken since she had the horizontal brown water episode last winter. In my mind, she would just go back to her usual soft stools after we switched back to herTHK. I've tried all the different varieties of THK by the way. Embark and Force seem the best for her.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/12/2012 08:48 AM Re: Soft stool??? [Re: christy mascari ] #370486 - 12/12/2012 08:48 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	THK isn't microwaved or cooked in any way in prep, by the way ...... but that's a little off this topic here. And yes, you are mixing it well in advance, which some dogs do need. You up to doing the diarrhea diet? I would. I'll help you gradually switch it after she achieves log poops. There's a systematic method. What exactly did you give for the diarrhea diet? BTW, the reason I asked if it had ever improved her poop is because this sounds like recurring parasites to me (giardia, in this case, has been diagnosed). It's worth it to try the diarrhea diet done right and very gradually and methodically changed back to "real" food, though.
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Bryan Simms wrote 12/12/2012 09:55 AM Re: Soft stool??? [Re: christy mascari ] #370490 - 12/12/2012 09:55 AM
Bryan Simms Webboard User Reg: 07-14-2012 Posts: 94 Loc: Charlotte, NC Offline	I know when I experienced issues similar to this, it was directly related to portion size. I found that regardless of the food brands my pup had soft stool. Ultimately I found that more portions of smaller sizes was the solution for us. Even now at a year old and 85lbs, I find that if I bump the portion size much over 2 cups we are certain to have loose stool. If I stay just below 2 cups there's never a problem. This came from trial and error using a food scale to weigh portions within a 1/10 of an ounce to figure out the ideal portion size. I don't know that this is your cause but it might be something to consider.
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