I have the opportunity to get a GSD for free, and I need some input from people who know more than I!!

She is 2 years old and just had an 'accidental' litter of 5 about ten weeks ago by her own sire. The owner says he's getting ready to move, so is getting rid of a couple of his dogs (her and a 3 year old).

She is registered, and is a great-granddaughter of V Lassan vom Kirschental and V Resa vom Kirschental (and I hear Kirschentals are good lines to be from).

Anyone have any input on this? Should I steer clear? Snatch her up? Don't look a gift dog in the mouth?

I appreciate any thoughts/suggestions.

The scenario creates questions.
Do you have a present dog? What is the temperament/personality of the present dog AND the new dog? How much time can you put into BOTH dogs? What are your plans for this dog? Has this new dog been a kennel dog or house dog? What are your experiences with raising more then one dog at a time? What training experience do you have?
Being a g-grandaughter of any dog doesn't really tell much about the present generation if there hasn't been a huge amount of though and knowledge that has gone into the breeding of each and every generation before this female.
There is no way to give a simple answer to your question.

"Accidental" breedings in responsible kennels are VERY rare.

We do have another dog; a rescued 5 year old neutered Manchester Terrier. (We also have 3 children in the house, ages 4, 9, and 12.)
We have not met the new dog, but we're told she is "the bottom of the totem pole, pack-wise (very submissive)" with the other 8 dogs he has, will bark when meeting new dogs, but is fine after that.

Our present dog is somewhat high-strung, perfect around everyone in our family, barks at strangers at the door; I'm not sure how else to describe temperament/personality. He is essentially my wife's 'lap-dog' and, as such, has little more than basic obedience training.

My plans for the new dog would include professional obedience training (local retired K-9 trainer has offered to come train her), then see if she has an aptitude for anything else (possibly agility or SAR?). If nothing else, we would be plumb happy to simply have her be a pet.

According to the owner, she has been kept in the house or in a dog run (depending on what the weather was like).

I have had very little experience with raising more than one dog at a time, and even less serious training experience. I would like to expand my training experience with agility or SAR IF this dog seems to have the drive for it. Like I said before, if she doesn't, I'll be content having a pet.

As far as the 'accidental' breeding goes, the owner says he is a "hobby breeder" (not sure exactly what that means), and took a month long vacation with his folks, leaving a friend in charge of his dogs, which is when this girl went into heat and the rest is history.

On a side note, can anyone tell me a reason why a breeder would get rid of a dog who has had a litter under these circumstances (2 yrs old, bred with her own sire, 'curled tail' recessive gene)?

And if anyone is really curious, or if it makes any difference whatsoever, this girl's name is "Raini von Haus Weiler" (pedigreedatabase link here: <http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=649657>

 Quote: Jon Nicodemus

On a side note, can anyone tell me a reason why a breeder would get rid of a dog who has had a litter under these circumstances (2 yrs old, bred with her own sire, 'curled tail' recessive gene)?

The only one that can answer that is the giver. One possibility is that he doesn't want the recessive gene in his bloodline. It may have been an unwanted litter and he's had trouble selling the pups.

My dog was given to me by a backyard breeder under dubious circumstances. I never did find out her true motives. I put it behind me, but I have deduced that part of the reason may have been questionable genetics.

Jon,

If your dog adopting priorities start out with 'pet' and then go down the list of training objectives you noted, then the 'free' GSD you described is probably a reasonable acquisition.

If you are married to the training objectives then the situation becomes more 'ify.' But I would argue that is the same risk with many GSDs you would buy.

In truth, and only in my opinion formed by being involved in GSD rescue, fostering, adopting, the dog will probably be a good addition to your family. It will only have to get along with one dog, it will have children to dote on it, and it will have an owner who is looking for a pet and companion, in the first instance.

I would probably take on the dog, if I was in your shoes and your bride is on board, and the kids are excited, and you are committed to integrating the dog into your home.

Did I mention I really, really, really dislike hobby breeders?

Adopt the dog and expand your family. The SAR stuff and other advanced training if there is an aptitude will be a bonus but should not be the reason for bringing a pet into the family.

Two cents offered in context as I look at Brio, Kai and Titan, all adopted GSDs arrayed around me, and Freya who I 'rescued' from a hobby breeder, pets all, I think I made the right decisions. And we do therapy dog stuff, which is very rewarding.

mike brings up some good points , but if the main reason you are even considering this is because the opportunity to get a free dog came up , i'd give it a pass .

I'm a big believer in rescue and rehoming and I love to see a good match made. That said, I can't say whether you should or should not take this dog as I don't know you or your family or the dog.

If I were in your shoes, the big question I would have is: What is her temperament/disposition like? The breeder says she's submissive, "low on the totem pole," but that doesn't necessarily equal great temperament.

You're talking about bringing a large dog into a family with three young children and a small dog. And I'm guessing your children have friends over sometimes. You and your wife will need to be 100 percent vigilant about managing all interactions in a safe manner.

Whether you get a dog for free from a hobby breeder, pay good money for it, get it through a rescue organization, etc., I would be asking a lot of questions about her temperament, whether she has ever been exposed to children, small animals, etc. Household manners are one thing. Dogs with no manners can be taught. Temperament cannot be taught.

So, if you are comfortable in adopting this dog, there are a lot of books, DVDs, and other resources out there to help you learn the proper ways to introduce a new dog to children and to other dogs, and in training a dog to be a great household companion.

I hope you let us know what you decide, Jon.

Many great points here.

Just wanted to add that it's never a waste of effort to have a long-experienced breeder/trainer with you when you evaluate a dog.

Holy smokes. I appreciate all the thoughts/ideas/input!

 Quote: Duane Hull

The only one that can answer that is the giver. One possibility is that he doesn't want the recessive gene in his bloodline. It may have been an unwanted litter and he's had trouble selling the pups.

My dog was given to me by a backyard breeder under dubious circumstances. I never did find out her true motives. I put it behind me, but I have deduced that part of the reason may have been questionable genetics.

I spoke with the son of the owner/breeder today. Apparently the owner decided to get rid of the remaining five puppies from the litter (there were originally 9 or 10 -- one was stillborn, she sat on another, and a third just quit nursing -- not sure what happened to the others) because it was an accidental breeding, and posted an ad online to that effect. The son suggested to his dad that he get rid of a few more of his dogs since he was on a roll. Apparently they have 8 adults, so they're getting rid of 3 of them. (Sounds like the son feels his father has too many dogs and not enough time or something along those lines.)

 Quote: Mike Arnold

Adopt the dog and expand your family. The SAR stuff and other advanced training if there is an aptitude will be a bonus but should not be the reason for bringing a pet into the family.

Here's hoping everything works out! We're going to meet the dog (and owner) on Monday.

 Quote: ian bunbury

mike brings up some good points , but if the main reason you are even considering this is because the opportunity to get a free dog came up , i'd give it a pass .

The main reason we're considering this is because we've been looking for another dog (not necessarily a GSD -- that's just a bonus for me!) for 6-7 months now, and just haven't found one that fit.

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

If I were in your shoes, the big question I would have is: What is her temperament/disposition like? The breeder says she's submissive, "low on the totem pole," but that doesn't necessarily equal great temperament.

What tips can you give me about looking for good temperament? Or maybe, what red flags should I look for?

Sorry for the long posts; I'm trying to get as much information as possible before we go see her on Monday. Thank you all for your time and replies!!

Jon, I wouldnt think of anything else except, how is she with my kids. I wouldnt care about her pedigree or tail, the one thing that stands out to me is the breeders use of submissive.

If she's confident and happy to meet you, maybe she's ok. If she's fearful and unsure, I'd pass, not a good match for a family with young kids. Maybe the trainer would go with you to evaluate her?