14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
#370830 - 12/19/2012 11:32 AM |
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I adopted two adorable lab mixes, male (Otis) and female (Dolcetta . I think they're mixed with terrier, possibly Pit).
Otis has taken to growling at me when we're just resting. I want to correct this ASAP. Last night he went right into his crate and was left alone. Any other ideas are very gratefully accepted.
Both dogs bite at each other when playing. If Otis play-bites me, I will take Mr. Ellis' advice and not make a big deal of this. Comments?
Thank you,
Chuck S.
Los Angeles, CA
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Re: 14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
[Re: Chuck Silverman ]
#370833 - 12/19/2012 02:15 PM |
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First thing I would suggest is seperating the pups except for some limited play time. Pups get very doggie when raised together. You want them to look at you as the one that the sun rises & sets on. You are the one that they look to for all the fun & good things in life. You won't get that kind of focus from a pup having them together...they will get all that from one another not you.
I would work with each pup seperately for training & manners. I'd only have one out at a time.
It is not generally advised to raise more then 1 pup at a time unless you are experienced...even then it is alot of work. It is not usually in the best interest of the pups.
Need more info when you say growling at you when resting. Is he just being vocal or is he trying to intise you to interact with him? Where are you resting...on the couch on the floor? Where is the other pup at that time? I find it a little hard to think of a 12 week old pup as behaving dominately. If the pup gets too excited & cannot calm down..I would crate it & give it some time out.
Dogs do most things with their mouths..like babies that's how they explor their world. Pups play bite & fight all the time...it's how they determine rank within their pack. If my pup bites me...I just say...Ahah..& give him something that it is ok for him to bite. Teething pups need to have appropriate things to bite. Always have a tug or ball or somehting in your pocket to redirect the biting to something appropriate.
I would also impliment NILIF (nothing in life is free) with these dogs. Let them earn everything. From their dinner, treats to a petting. If you start it early it becomes a way of life.
How old were they when you first adopted them?
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Re: 14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
[Re: Chuck Silverman ]
#370839 - 12/19/2012 04:34 PM |
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Another question....what were you doing when 'resting'? Were you touching the dog or speaking to him...What?
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Re: 14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
[Re: Chuck Silverman ]
#370869 - 12/20/2012 09:50 AM |
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Thanks Anne. Let's see...
It'll be difficult separating them for most of the time. The only way would be to crate one of them for a (long) while, while I interact with the other. (By the way, they're litter mates.) I could try that. I have two and a half weeks off now and want to take advantage of the time to train them.
Otis growled at me when all three of us were on the couch. They were just waking up from a nap. But, he will do that (growl) if he's awake and I attempt to move him.
When we train, I separate them, working with one at a time.
Do you recommend the DVD "Your Puppy from 8 Weeks to 8 Months"?
Thank you for your ideas and comments.
Chuck S.
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Re: 14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
[Re: Chuck Silverman ]
#370870 - 12/20/2012 10:28 AM |
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Quote Chuch:"It'll be difficult separating them for most of the time. The only way would be to crate one of them for a (long) while"
Yep, that's what happens when you are trying to raise 2 pups at the same time...they get to spend less time with you...since you need to divide your time up between them. That's why it is not recomended to have more then 1 pup at a time unless you have the kind of time it takes to do that.
They NEED to be seperated MOST of the time. That is just the way that it is.
I would not let them on the furniture. They should have beds & taught place commands. That would be their place to rest. There & in a crate.
I think that the one is getting 'pushy' & needs to have his wings clipped a bit. These pups at least the pushy one in particular does not view you as his pack leader or the one in charge. He is treating you like a littermate & you are bugging him.
I would 100% practice NILIF with these pups. If you don't get control of it all now...you are going to have bigger problems in the furture. They are puppies now...but in 6 months if they start throwing their weight around you can get hurt as they will have alot more weight behind them at that time. I still won't use the word dominate, because truly dominate dogs are VERY VERY rare...most of the time it is a pushy dog with as weak owner & they learn what they can get away with & play on that & keep pushing. You need to nip it in the bud.
Yes, I have seen the DVD....about 10 years ago...so I don't recall exactly what is in it. But it is pretty basic, if I recall.
BTW..I have raised 2 male working line GSD pups at the same time..so I know what it takes to do this & have well mannered well trained dogs. Plus I had a 3 year old female at the same time. Basically, my life was dogs & work...most of the time...wasn't a whole lot of extra time for too much else when they were young.
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Re: 14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
[Re: Chuck Silverman ]
#370876 - 12/20/2012 11:12 AM |
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Thanks Anne. So, regarding being on the couch...they've been on the couch for a short time...a week. In your opinion, should I buy separate dog beds and have them use these if I want their company when they're in the house?
Chuck
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Re: 14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
[Re: Chuck Silverman ]
#370885 - 12/20/2012 01:52 PM |
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Yes, seperate beds...I'd even go as far as to have the beds on opposite sides of the room. Seperation. That is their PLACE their bed. That & their crates. That & implimenting NILIF....They NEED to learn to EARN good things like attention. If you have a pushy pup...even more so.
Sounds like you might be kinda new to this puppy raising stuff, so better to err on the side of being stricter then more permissive. The foundation that you set is what your pup will carry for life. Any behavior or training wise you DON"T want to see or live with in an adult dog....you don't let them do as a puppy. You can always 'soften' the rules once you have a nice well trained adult dog (2-3 years old). I wouldn't loosen up anything from adolescence - maturity ( a year or so- 2-3yrs old)or it can be a problem later. That's when most dogs will do the most testing of boundries.
I nice way to incorporate time with everyone together is for walks. One on each side & you WALK. Keep everone moving...no stopping & smelling..just walking. Make sure everyone goes potty before you begin. You can stop after a while & let them potty again & then walk. But cover some ground with the walk. No jumping on each other, nipping at each other etc. My pups learn very young that a walk is a WALK. I tell them walk with me & we walk. Very different from a formal heel command. Teach one seperately what a walk means & then walk them together.
Most importantly have fun with your dogs.
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Re: 14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
[Re: Chuck Silverman ]
#370888 - 12/20/2012 03:31 PM |
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Buying two dog beds today and will train them to use them when they're in the house.
I _am_ new to puppydom, especially two of them. We trained separately this morning and they were really obedient. Getting better every day.
Separating them for a majority of the day won't work. I do separate them when we train.
Anne, thanks so much. No walking yet, not until after their last shots. Do I take them for walks separately to train them how to walk?
We _do_ have fun!! They're very sweet, 95% of the time.
Chuck, Otis and Dolcetta
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Re: 14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
[Re: Chuck Silverman ]
#370889 - 12/20/2012 04:03 PM |
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Why won't separating them for the majority of the day work?
It's pretty easy to just buy an x-pen and teach them that when you rotate who gets to be in the x-pen and who gets to interact with you that they need to accept this and be happy with the toys and food you've provided for entertainment. You can also use baby gates to keep them in different rooms of the house to teach them to be self sufficient.
If you don't do it now, you're going to end up with large breed dogs that may have some pretty serious separation anxiety issues, regardless of how sweet and well behaved they seem now. When they hit the 5-12 month mark and start their bratty teenager stage you're going to regret not enforcing self soothing/self sufficient behaviors as they proceed to destroy your property and drive your family crazy because they're feeding off of each other. Sure, you may be lucky and it may not happen, but that's only if you're LUCKY.
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Re: 14 week old pup is growling at me, "play" biting
[Re: SamanthaTopper ]
#370891 - 12/20/2012 04:27 PM |
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Chuck, being new to puppydom and having made a commitment (more than a double one, truth be told) that entails some real time and management, I sure hope you're reading carefully. These people know exactly what they are talking about. Everything they said here http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=32869&page=1#369642 was right, too.
It's hard to believe at this age how serious everyone sounds, but they're so right .....
"If you don't do it now, you're going to end up with large breed dogs that may have some pretty serious separation anxiety issues, regardless of how sweet and well behaved they seem now. When they hit the 5-12 month mark and start their bratty teenager stage you're going to regret not enforcing self soothing/self sufficient behaviors as they proceed to destroy your property and drive your family crazy because they're feeding off of each other."
Seriously. Trust this advice you're getting.
They are trying to help you. The commitment you made was one no one here would have recommended, but it's one that these are the folks who can help with.
I have a feeling you didn't see this article before you decided on two puppies.
http://leerburg.com/2dogs.htm
It's still a very good thing to read, especially about separation.
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