For those that don't know, I'm trying to take a dog (10 month old male rottie) that has virtually no working lines in his pedigree and do schH with him. By the way this is my first attempt at any sport. So I've been doing tracking for a couple months now but I usually don't make tracking with the club because I usually work when they track on saturdays.

Started out with 15-20 steps soft turn 15-20 steps end. Food in every step jackpot at the end. I would do 2 tracks each time. He picked that up really quick. First track he would usually get turned around early, I believe from being over excited. Then was great from there on. After doing that for a couple weeks I made it to a session with the club and the TD told me to lengthen the track. Did that. He could do 100 steps turn 50 steps turn etc. No problem. Made it to another club session a couple weeks later TD had start to skip food in 4-5 steps in various places on the track. Plus he had me start to follow behind instead of being right on his shoulder. Marco had no problem that first time. However, I've tried it several times since and he keeps getting off the track where there's no food. I know one problem is I have a hard time seeing the track sometimes. I can't always do it in the morning when there's dew or frost to help. Another issue is that the TD said that its my job to keep him from getting off the track but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to do that.

So the last track I did, I only skipped 3 steps with no food and he did a little better.

I feel like I'm forgetting something but that's it I guess.

When you moved behind him did you go back to just straight tracks?
Your also changing two things at once. Your moving behind him and your removing some of the food
I don't know that I'd leave bait out of 4-5 steps. Maybe just a step or two now and then till he gets it.
In the beginning the dog is learning to connect the dots between food and the disturbed grass/soil. He may not be ready for to many steps left empty.
Don't do a lot of talking to the dog. Not that you do but that can be distracting to some dogs.
I wouldn't worry about corners untill you get the straight solid.
Tracking is one of those things that you have to do often. At least in the beginning of training.

I kept doing turns when I moved behind him. He doesn't seem to have much trouble with turns. Its only when he hits spots with no food. And even then he sometims stays right on track but other times goes off and I have to restart him. I guess what I'm asking is how do I help him stay on track so he doesn't make that mistake? The only talking I do is to give the command at the start, say it again if I do catch him going off track or when restarting. I will also say good if he wavers off a little but then gets back on himself.

It still sounds like he's not quite "getting it" when there is no food on the track. Be sure and keep the empty spots very random when you get to it.
One foot print missing food, 10 with it, 3 without. etc, etc. Constantly vary it.
Be consistent on how the wind is blowing. Ideally it should be at your back so the dog has to really use it's nose to find the food in the tracks.
Have you done any box work with the dog? step out a 3'x3' area on the ground and bait it all over with food you use in the tracking. DO NOT let any of the food get outside the border of the box. let the dog start eating the food. Stand still with no directions to the dog. Keep the leash short but relaxed. If the dog goes outside the box let him figure it out. Be sure to pull the dog off before he finishes the food. You want him ti keep wanting.
What the dog is doing is learning there is no reward when there is no crushed grass/soil. When he starts consistently going right back in the box then it's starting to fall together in his head.
I'm not a big fan of corrections in tracking but some will give a simple correction to get the dog back on it. How does your TD feel about that?

I have not done box work. I have seen it done at a different club that I went to several years ago, but never got started with a dog. This TD doesn't do it that way so I was following his direction. He does tell me that I should use corrections to keep him on track but that's where I'm having trouble figuring out how to do that. I'm not opposed to it unless you or someone else suggest a better way, just having trouble doing it.

Like Bob stated, a scent pad is the easiest way to start a dog so that they totally understand what you are asking of them. They learn that the reward is in the disturbed/scented ground.

I would go back & start all over again with the scent pad & work from there forward. I think that you have moved way forward too fast & you are seeing the results of doing that.

Decide on a plan of training & stick with that. If you keep bouncing around changing things up...you just get the dog confused. If you start up close to the dog while tracking...stay there until the dog is REALLY solid...then move back away from him a little at a time. If you move back too far too soon you give the dog something other then the track to focus on & mess him up his concentration.

Like any other training...you only change one thing at a time. For example...Like training time & distance in a down stay. Only add 1 change at a time. First add some time when that is solid...then you can add some distance. etc.etc.

Like any other training....you don't move forward until the first step is solid. I have trained 3 pups to track from 10 weeks old all started this same way. They have all been solid trackers using this method.

I guess that each TD has their own way of doing things, but I also think that I want to make things as easy & clear to my dog as I can. I think you dog is confused at this point.

I don't see anything productive or positive in correcting a dog that is learning to track. (or any other time on a track) I personally have never corrected any of my 4 dogs when tracking. I let them figure it out for them selves. If I continue to 'help' them...they grow to depend on that help. That is not the end result that I want. I wanted them to want & like to track & to gain confidence in knowing that they can get it done themselves.

I would also be careful about always jackpotting the end of the track. You can cause a speed problem doing that. I would vary the jackpotting to several spots on the track, once the dog is doing a 30-50 step track, so the dog doesn't rush the track. I have also placed a jackpot a couple of steps after a turn to encourage staying on track after a turn. I would not work on turns until the dog is totally solid on pretty long tracks...even the I would make the turns very wide & slow bending & tighten them up over time when I saw the dog was very solid.

Good luck.

I've been trying to think about the times when he gets off track. It is almost always very early in the track. I believe because he's so excited at first and because he's so food driven. Or else its in spots of 4 or more steps without food, which I agree that I probably did too many steps with no food too quickly. However I do think he gets it because if I do a second track he almost always does it perfectly. Also I have noticed recently that if he's eaten within a few hours before tracking he does better. I think that he's so food driven that if I track first thing before he's eaten, he's to wound up and can't focus. Does that make sense?

The other day he got to the first turn and got off track (it was very windy). I had lost track of it myself so I put him in a sit so I could find it and regain my bearings. I still had the lead in my hand and walked ahead of him trying to locate it. Next thing I know there's a tug on the lead. He'd found the turn on his own and was headed down the next leg with or without me. So I do think that I need to only do a step or two maybe three without food but I don't think that I need to start over again.

So if you don't correct at all, what do you do if the dog gets off track?

Can you start teaching this in snow, or is that somehow cheating, because you can see the footprints?
My Pinker tracks coyotes and deer for a short while, pushing his nose deep into the footprints. He knows "new" tracks (ones from last night) vs. old and investigates. But he only goes 20-30 yards and then looses interest. Of course there isn't anything to find at the end of the track with some critter who has already gone "home".
I thought it might be fun to start this work.

I started my female in the winter when we still had a foot of snow on the ground, left from a blizzard 2 weeks before. They are still taking in the scent of the disturbed ground. Eventually the snow melted enough that the ground underneath was disturbed by the scuffing up from the foot steps.

It is a bit of a cheat in the snow, I thought, as they can see the steps...but honestly my dog never paid attention to that, she was totally using her nose, not her eyes. It did make it easier for me to follow the track, though. :-)

My other dogs were started in the fall & the summer.

tracking in the snow to often can create a crutch for "some" dogs. The can start tracking by eye.
As Anne said with her dog it was no problem thus my " " on the some.