Connie Sutherland wrote 01/10/2013 11:01 AM Anyone know any fat raw-fed dogs? #371830 - 01/10/2013 11:01 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Tresa Hendrix ..... Vets are not used to dogs with toned muscles and healthy lean shaped torsos....they are used to atrophied pudgy kibble fed dogs. Logan has been on raw too and looks young but is 7 now. Keep it up!  Quote: Duane Hull FWIW, kibble-fed does not equate to atrophied or pudgy. Overweight dogs are a sign of mismanagement, period, regardless of the diet. From what I've seen over the past forty years, table fed and over/poorly-treated are much worse offenders than kibble.  Quote: Tresa Hendrix I was speaking of the average pet owner here...but I don't think a dog can reach full potential or hold it as long on kibble, biologically unlikely. No diet can replace exercise though.  Quote: Duane Hull  Quote: Tresa Hendrix I don't think a dog can reach full potential or hold it as long on kibble, biologically unlikely. This is a bias. Sure it can. Prior to the holistic movement, dog food mfgrs were the primary source of dog food nutrition research. There are formulas out there that are equal to or superior to "natural" diets. Many, many top-level dogs have existed on nothing but formulated diets.
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Duane Hull wrote 01/10/2013 11:45 AM Re: Anyone know any fat raw-fed dogs? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #371832 - 01/10/2013 11:45 AM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	Okay, so the subject line kinda shifted the debate. Anyone who believes in raw and goes to the effort to prepare all of their dogs meals from scratch Is going to better manage their dog's weight better than the average pet owner, and is unlikely to have an overweight dog.. The only objection that I had about the kibble statement was that it was a generalization that unfairly lumped a large segment of the dog population together. Not all kibble-fed is bad, and a person that feeds a superior formulated diet and manages their dog's exercise and health properly is not somehow cheating their dog of a healthy lifestyle. Sadie
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Ariane Gauthier wrote 01/10/2013 11:20 AM Re: Anyone know any fat raw-fed dogs? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #371835 - 01/10/2013 11:20 AM
Ariane Gauthier Webboard User Reg: 11-23-2010 Posts: 817 Loc: St-Lazare, Qc Offline	Some people have a picture in mind but not always the good one. I have one boader, whose horse is very fat, her raw fed dog and cat are fat and she is a veggetarian and not on the thin side just to be nice. Lucifer!
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Tracy Collins wrote 01/10/2013 11:29 AM Re: Anyone know any fat raw-fed dogs? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #371836 - 01/10/2013 11:29 AM
Tracy Collins Webboard User Reg: 10-09-2008 Posts: 1917 Loc: St. Louis, Missouri Offline	Other than my own, I only personally know two other raw-fed dogs. They aren't fat. I know several fat dogs and they are kibble fed. But generalities aren't rules. There are kibble fed dogs who are fit and thriving--all four of the breeders my purebreds are from feed kibble, and their dogs all look wonderful. All the other dogs we see at our agility club are kibble fed and they are active and healthy. And I'm also sure that there are people out there attempting a raw diet and doing a terrible job of it. (Every once in a while one of those people will stumble in here looking for advice.) I think the health of the dog has as much to do with the level of information the OWNER has as what's in the bowl. Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon
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Anne Jones wrote 01/10/2013 11:37 AM Re: Anyone know any fat raw-fed dogs? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #371837 - 01/10/2013 11:37 AM
Anne Jones Webboard User Reg: 04-29-2004 Posts: 3825 Loc: Northeast Offline	I have fed a raw diet for almost 10 years. I will say that it might be a bit harder to make a raw fed well exercised dog fat...but any dog can be OVERFED no matter what diet they are on. Many of my friends that also have working dogs feed a raw diet. None of their dogs are fat. I do have to say that many of the people I know that feed kibble have overweight dogs. But I think that it is more lack of exercise then the diet. I monitor my dogs weight by being vigilant to nip any weight gain or loss in the bud & adjust food amount accordingly. I think the general public's perception is that an overly well nourished dog like an overly well nourished child is an indication of the owner/parents LOVE,social & financial status. Which may have been the case many many years ago. Today it is seen as ABUSE!!! MY DOGS...MY RULES
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/10/2013 11:35 AM Re: Anyone know any fat raw-fed dogs? [Re: Ariane Gauthier ] #371838 - 01/10/2013 11:35 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Here's an interesting point from the other thread that we've discussed before:  Quote: Kristin Muntz I know folks can do an awesome job with kibble for their dogs, but on raw, Duke's got such a clear head! Individual dogs, like individuals of many mammalian species (including humans) are particularly sensitive to the glycemic load in their diets. Kibble, by its nature, almost has to have a much higher proportion of foods high on the glycemic index, and this hasn't improved (IMO) with the relatively new "grain-free" kibbles. White potato and tapioca are far higher on the G.I. than any whole grain (although not much worse than some of the grain fractions in the crappier kibbles). That blood-sugar rush in a GL-sensitive dog is similar to what you see in a kid who was accidentally left alone with the whole bag of Halloween loot. "Calmer" and "more level-headed," which years ago were descriptions pooh-poohed as unicorn talk about raw diets, turns out to be completely valid and simply explained. We didn't used to understand what blood-sugar rushes and crashes could do.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/10/2013 11:51 AM Re: Anyone know any fat raw-fed dogs? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #371839 - 01/10/2013 11:51 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	"Okay, so the subject line kinda shifted the debate." I didn't mean it to, because I do know a couple of fat raw-fed dogs. And you should see their owners! I know many more fat kibble-fed dogs, but that doesn't mean much, because I know many more kibble-fed dogs, period. QUOTE: "Anyone who believes in raw and goes to the effort to prepare all of their dogs meals from scratch Is going to better manage their dog's weight better than the average pet owner, and is unlikely to have an overweight dog." This makes sense to me. So does what Ann says: ".... any dog can be OVERFED no matter what diet they are on. ... " Most important of what Ann said, IMO, is that allowing a dog to become obese is abuse. To me, that's unarguable. JMHO.
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Kristin Muntz wrote 01/10/2013 11:51 AM Re: Anyone know any fat raw-fed dogs? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #371840 - 01/10/2013 11:51 AM
Kristin Muntz Webboard User Reg: 05-09-2012 Posts: 746 Loc: Offline	I had actually brought that question to the LB board when I first noticed it and it has held true all these months. He's simply more of a thinking dog on raw. He's still got all the energy to do anything I ask of him, he responds to requests quicker and is less 'spinny' IE. he doesn't climb the walls (couches) inside. Like humans, I am sure there are dogs that are more sensitive to what they eat, and that may simply be why he's affected this way.
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Duane Hull wrote 01/10/2013 12:00 PM Re: Anyone know any fat dogs? [Re: Tracy Collins ] #371841 - 01/10/2013 12:00 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	Quote: Tracy Collins I think the health of the dog has as much to do with the level of information the OWNER has as what's in the bowl. I know many overweight dogs, mostly owned by my beloved family and friends. Typically (almost without fail), these dogs are fed a full ration of dog food, SUPPLEMENTED with table scraps, dog biscuits, and imitation bacon treats. Needless to say, none of them are implementing a structured exercise routine. I noticed that I was much more able to control my dog's waistline and muscle tone by switching to healthier treats/rewards, and factoring them into her overall intake (percentage wise and nutrional allowances). Sadie
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/10/2013 12:12 PM Re: Anyone know any fat dogs? [Re: Duane Hull ] #371842 - 01/10/2013 12:12 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Duane Hull ... I noticed that I was much more able to control my dog's waistline and muscle tone by switching to healthier treats/rewards, and factoring them into her overall intake (percentage wise and nutrional allowances). HUGE point that I started to pay special attention to when marker training came on the scene. Maybe it didn't matter much before when food rewards were occasional, but first with FST and then when I started marker work, I quickly learned that it was vital that I use real food for both and consider both as part of the daily diet. http://leerburg.com/search/searchresults2.php?view=prod&page=1&terms=treats http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/796/Zuke's_Mini_Naturals_Dog_Treats http://leerburg.com/search/searchResults.php?terms=treats&Submit=Search&checkbox2=checkbox I mix Zukes and "Leerburg Soft Training Treats" (whichever ones I have) in my bait bag with small-diced cooked white chicken. All of these are fine with either kibble or raw diets.
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