I am trying to find some correct info for my Mom's dog. He is 4 years old, healthy aside from allergies, and has recently had surgery for bladder stones. They came back as calcium oxalate. The vet's ideas on diet is to call Hill's pet food and get a recommendation for which Science Diet food to feed. After calling both the vet and Hill's to try to help her sort it all out, I found that either the urinary diet or the heart diet, they can't seem to figure out why the heart diet was recommended, is crap food. I am not surprised. After having a discussion with Hills and having to hear why corn flour ios a great food, I gave up on that.

I contacted my vet(I am in a different state than Mom). He is going to write a blog post on his website so I can have it in writing and everyone can benefit from it. He said give him 3 or 4 days.

Mom is elderly and on a fixed income and won't let me help her financially. I just convinced her to switch from taste of the Wild to Origen, and he has been on that for about 3 weeks. The dog is super sneaky and refuses to eat anything but kibble, although if the best way to feed him is a home made, canned, etc food she will just have to let him get hungry enough to eat it. I have been trying to do some research for her, but was really hoping to get some been there, done that, or seen that a bunch in our vet's office, input. If I tell her to go against the vet's advice, I want to know that I actually do know what I am talking about.

I got her using the best kibble I know, and she doesn't do anything but necessary rabies shots, so she is willing to follow where I lead. In this instance where a stone in the penis could kill the dog, or lead to another $600 surgery, I want to KNOW I am telling her right. So far I am coming up with the best thing is increased water intake to keep the urine dilute. And 50% of dogs have stones re-occur no matter what. I know this is going to be tough for her to manage. I appreciate any input. Julie

Julie, though I have no personal experience with actual bladder stones, I have a dog who has recurrent troubles with crystals in the urine, both the caldium oxalate and the struvite kind. So a couple years ago, I was doing a lot of research into it. Yes, my vet also suggested the prescription dog food, which I flatly refused.

Anyway, I hope this helps. I believe this site may have other related articles. Just use their search function.

http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjcalciumoxalates.html

Julie, are you also familiar with Lew Olson?
(She is this site: http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter )

Lew Olson and the person Cheri recommends (Mary Strauss, who is dogaware, the link Cheri posted) are IMO the two best canine nutrition and canine diets-for-chronic-illness writers on the web.

You will see that Lew and Mary refer to each other, too, so I never even feel that I must check to see who is more up on whatever topic is at hand.


Is it possible for the dog to have steam-distilled water? http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjcalciumoxalates.html#water

Kibble, for me, is the bottom choice for a dog who needs his food to contain all its natural water. (I will post more about that below.)

To avoid foods high in oxalates and provide food in its natural water-filled state, homemade is going to be your best shot.

Is your mother going to be able to do home-cooked? If so, I'll get Lew Olson's low-oxalate recipe; I know I have it saved.

If not, I'm happy to search out canned foods (much higher in water than kibble; much closer to its natural state) lowest in oxalates.

I wouldn't feed kibble to a stone-forming dog (or in fact a dog with any kidney or bladder problems), if there's any doable alternative.

I'd make sure your mother understands how important water is, drinking and urinating (flushing the urinary tract). Mary gives suggestions for encouraging it in the "water" link, again: http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjcalciumoxalates.html#water

I will find that low-oxalate recipe of Lew Olson's.

Oxalate stones if I remember correctly are more difficult to control via the diet. Connie is right, the dog really needs to be super hydrated.
If my memory serves Science Diet does not even have a formula for this variety of stone.

I'm sure that the internet is going to be a great resource here.

I seem to remember a little fluffy dog in our practice who lived on eggs and salted buttered toast for many years w/o recurrance -- but I remember a little male shelty that was operated on every 6 mos, the owner made earings from the stones.

I'm sure there is a better answer today!

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

.... I will find that low-oxalate recipe of Lew Olson's. ....

Here it is.

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/november-2009-struvite-and-calcium-oxalate-urinary-stones-and-crystals/

Scroll down to Calcium Oxalates.

You'll see warnings about certain meds, like Pred and lasix, and a list of symptoms. She also suggests fish oil as well as a B supplement, and points out that boiling (not steaming) many of the vegetable ingredients removes more oxalates.

Cauliflower, for example, already low, is lower if boiled.. Carrots should not be eaten unless boiled.

A nice reward/treat for a urolith-forming dog is a hard-boiled egg cut into small cubes. (Also baked liver, but that smells kind of awful baking, at least to me.) Avoid all grainy commercial treats, of course.

Also scroll lower to Additional Methods to Help Resolve Crystals and Stones.


PS

If this dog is a bloat-vulnerable breed like a GSD, please post back so we can talk about the cruciferous vegetables in Lew's diet. What breed is he?

I don't give "gassy" vegetables like the cruciferous ones to bloat-prone dogs, but not to worry; we can swap out something similar in micronutrients but not gassy if necessary.

BTW, here is more about avoiding kibble for urolith-forming dogs (and also BTW, while she has been giving kibble, the one you recommended to her was the best choice I can think of for a urolith-forming dog; you did good):


http://www.2ndchance.info/oxalate-dogLekcharoensuk2002b.pdf
.... comparison of risk and protective factors ... in general, greater risk is associated with dry formulations.

http://www.ehow.com/way_6172313_feed-forms-calcium-oxalate-stones.html
... Start your dog on wet food if he has been eating kibble. The water content of the canned food will dilute his urine, says UC Davis' Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital. This is the primary way of lowering the stone-forming compounds in his urine.

http://www.ehow.com/how_6148659_stop-calcium-oxalate-crystals.html
Eliminate dry kibble from your crystal-prone dog's diet.

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

... I seem to remember a little fluffy dog in our practice who lived on eggs and salted buttered toast for many years w/o recurrance -- but I remember a little male shelty that was operated on every 6 mos, the owner made earings from the stones.

You are right about eggs and butter. I was typing while you posted, and I was suggesting diced hard-boiled eggs for treats.


I did not know about the earring angle.

You all are awesome!

I am going to check out the diets now. Yes, I think Mom would be in on home cooking. The prescription diets are super expensive even if she wanted to do one. Maybe she could cook a few times a week and put it in the fridge, freezer, etc. He is a shih-tzu, just 13 pounds, neutered male. She got him from the pound when he was a year old when she was here visiting. He is about 4 now.

She kind of created a mini monster when it comes to food over the years. He turns his nose up at anything that isn't kibble, ANYTHING. The dog won't eat steak, peanut butter, nothing. He will only eat if they are sitting down eating, will paw all food off his plate, then eat what he wants.

I have tried for the whole time she has had him to not free feed, but she does. That will HAVE to stop. She can't let canned or cooked food sit out. He only eats a little, so it hasn't been a real issue. I think she is making him treats now, peanut butter and brown rice flour.

I told her that if he gets hungry enough, he will eat whatever she feeds him. I know she feels like that is mean, but if the food she is putting out is good tasting wholesome food there is no reason to feel bad. I doubt that he will starve himself.

She says he drinks well, but I'm sure there is room for improvement there in keeping him well hydrated. he probably drinks well for a normal dog.

One issue is that he is so short she can't see if he pees when he squats down. And if he gets a stone stuck, they said it could kill him. And she wouldn't know he is not peeing. Unless he keeps "trying".

And I pass on the bladder stone earrings. :-/

Thank you all so much for the links. She called me today and said "what do I do, it's time for me to buy food, I'm almost out," and I didn't have an answer.

I will let you know how it turns out, or if I have any other questions as we go along. Thanks! Julie

Oh, vet had him on prednisone this past summer. I tried to talk her out of it, but she was at a loss on what to do for his insane itching. he got very depressed on it, and snappy, and they took him off of it. Now she just medicates him with allergy meds when she really needs to.

See I have a question already. I read dogaware's site first and printed that to send to Mom tomorrow. When reading Lew's I noticed he doesn't say to add calcium citrate specifically, or if you should add it at all. This is going to be completely confusing for her. Add it or no, and what form? The success stories sound very reassuring, although I did read somewhere that some dogs are stone forming dogs no matter what you feed them, so I know it is not a for certain thing no matter which way you go. But this sure sounds like the way to go.