Hi everyone! I am new to posting here but I have been reading the whole site and forums for many months, absorbing as much as I can. I have watched about 10 DVDs and read through hundreds of articles on the site.

My question is , I understand from Leerburg philosophy that they do not let their pups play with other dogs to prevent "dogginess". However!! I heard Michael Ellis mention a passing comment that he had dogs that developed social awkwardness from doing this? Is this true? Did I misunderstand something out of context? Which is it ? I emailed Leerburg a while back but did not get an answer, they were probably busy. I cannot remember which video it was that Michael Ellis mention this in

Hi, Laine, and welcome,

It's not really a black-and-white "which is it" to me. "Dogginess" for me is when they get their fun and attention and playing activity from and with other dogs instead of from you. Extreme and perfect example: person who raises two littermates together who are then left together all day while owner leaves. Guess who bonds with whom?

My dogs are exposed to lots of dogs. Socialized (accustomed) to everything. But no, they are not meet-and-greet play-dates with strange dogs.


You'll get good puppy-expert answers, and I'm not a puppy expert.


They might ask you:

How old is your puppy? When removed from litter? How long with you? What are your plans for him/her?

So you might want to add this info.

Nothing wrong with a new pup playing with your present dog(s) as long as you know the present dogs are safe. That doesn't mean they have complete access to each other all the time. You want to spend a lot of time with just you and the pup, also time individual time with your present in order to keep any problems down.
If your talking about dogs outside you family then I'm not real keen on that. Dogs can get along quite well without the need to associate with other dogs.
As to the "social awkwardness". Yes! It can happen but if the pup spent enough time with it's littermates there "should" be a fair amount of doggie sense developed.
Exposure to a dog social adult dog (another family member's)isn't a problem as long as they don't spend to much time together while one is a pup. All should be supervised)
Ditto +1 on Connie's comment about "socialized". It means the dogs will accept/tolerate outside dogs around them. It has nothing to do with any need to play together. That's your job as the owner.

p.s.
Stay away from dog parks. They are a disaster waiting to happen. Many if not most of the people there don't have a clue about the social interactions between dogs. They think all dogs MUST be friendly with any dog or human that walks through the gate. Dogs are a social pack animal "Within their own pack".

Thank you Bob and Connie for taking the time to answer! It is helpful to read your comments, I have a better idea now.

Connie, to answer your questions about my pup: I am getting my pup from the breeder this weekend, it will be 10 weeks old, white GSD, mostly 3 and 4 on the Volhard test. It will be the only dog in my household. This is my second dog, (the first being a family pet when I was a teen). Expectations wise, I'm just a pet owner and this is my first time doing marker training, but I want to train the dog as much as I can and take it to the limits of mine and the dogs abilities, maybe one day I can do focused heeling, get some CGC certifications!

A question about what constitutes "safe" dogs: there are 2 teenager pups in my workplace that love playing, but they have 0 recall and almost 0 obedience in them. Not aggressive but definitely pretty rough and tumble, pulling on the leash, jumping all over people type of dogs. One of them is deaf/blind. Are these safe?

Also should I avoid letting 3 dogs play together? I've seen it mention here that 3 is a bad idea.

Three dogs playing tends to result in two dogs interacting while the other one circles barking, nipping, and getting overstimulated.

Teenage pups can be real butt heads. I'd steer clear of them. Especially if the owner has no control over them.

I've had three at a time on numerous occasions.. It can be a pia even when you want to pet them all. You have two hands and three dogs.
I see your talking about the white GSDs and then the comment about the dogs in the office and one being blind and deaf. Not sure if those are also white GSDs but all white dogs of ANY breed have a high % of deafness. Just something that goes along with the whit gene. dals, Whie Bull terriers. Merle colored dogs also. Even white cats/
As I mentioned in another post you need to give all this very serious thought. Look with your eyes and brain and not with your heart. We've all made that mistake at one time or other.

Bob, The deaf/blind dog is some kind of aussie/BC mix that was rescued. We think he was one of those illegal double white merle breedings. It seems like the deafness is linked to merle (which is a apparntly a pattern, not a coat color?). I'm no expert but seems like Dalmatians are actually all double merle. Westies, Bichon, Sammies, are all white dogs that conversely do not have the problems Dals have.

I knew about the whiteness/deafness link since many years ago because I knew someone like that. I did some minor research and the deafness happens because the stem cells for hearing receptors and pigment cells are the same. So basically white skin surrounding eye tissue and ear tissue = no hearing or light receptors. In dogs like Samoyeds, the situation is different in that the skin is black but the follicle is white. (sounds like a polar bear, where the skin is black and the follicle is transparent) There is a lot of random information flying around the internet with different people claiming different things but it seems like the WGSD one is not well understood. That being said, I am getting black skinned dogs with dark eyes.

Basically, genetics is a complicated science that is not 100% understood yet. Deafness is complicated. Many traits are linked, like an orchestra. We're on the cusp of this great new frontier of science and we're just barely starting to understand the mechanisms.

I do like the efforts you put in your research. Hopefully that will result in a wonderful dog when the time comes.

I have 3 dogs that play together, they do not get over stimulated and play well together. Of course I have kept a watch on them when they first knew one another in case the play got out of hand. They run around the house together and have a blast. So my experience hasn't been negative, but I guess it would depend on what type of dogs you have. I have terriers and they can get wound up. But never had trouble playing together. I keep them pretty busy though and they have a big yard where they can go and be terriers, so that might be why.
Of course my dogs were not puppies together. They interact well with me and are not real linked to one another or dependent on one another. This could be because they were about 1 year old when I got each of them and I did get them at the same time.
Sharon

Edited by Sharon Empson (02/01/2013 02:04 AM)
Edit reason: clarify a statement