mysterious symptoms
#374180 - 02/27/2013 09:23 PM |
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Moved from another thread:
It's interesting how this situation has just come up with my parents' older 100lb lab. Something strange is going on with him and I think this information explains some of it (though probably not all). Let me back up...
Shiloh is a 10+ yr old lab. He has survived a blown disk in his back in which he was paralyzed back in 2009. Thanks to an excellent surgeon, a lot of $, and incredible care from my parents, he has mostly recovered from that and has lived a good life since then, though much weaker in his back end since the injury. To keep inflammation at a minimum, he was taking dermax and was doing fine on it. Unfortunately, there seems to be no more dermax in the entire world for some reason, so a few months ago he switched to rimadyl. He has been doing fine on rimadyl, taking one pill in the morning and one pill at night.
Last Thurs, the 21st, there was a mixup with the dosages. He got his one pill in the morning but then at night he got 2 pills. My parents were really concerned about the overdose and called the vet who told them that he's probably going to be ok, just don't give him the morning dose and give him prilosec for 5 days. Shiloh is raw fed and the vet probably didn't know, and neither my parents (nor I) knew about the antacid problem with raw food, so they gave him the prilosec for 4 days (starting late Thurs night and ending on Sun). He was acting a little strange when on it but it was small stuff - needing to pee more than usual, etc. He got gassy but he is often gassy, and again, we didn't know about not giving gas pills, so he got those too.
Well, that's the backstory. The current situation is this as I understand it: he walked well yesterday (Tues) evening and seemed fine. Got home and ate his dinner like normal. Laid on the floor for about an hour and then acted very strange. Was weak, sort of disoriented, subdued, and seemingly visually sensitive to light and motion. He did have a bulge in his lower abdomen and blew out a bunch of gas. He seemed to improve as the night went on. This morning he apparently walked and ate well, and was sort of back to normal, though maybe a bit more "down" than sometimes, but seemingly trending positive. Then this afternoon around 4:30 he began having what can best be described as a panic attack. Shaky. Anxious. Pacing. Again visually sensitive to light and motion, but in other ways mostly the opposite of last night.
We've just returned from the vet who didn't find anything immediately acute (such as torsion). She thinks it's neurological but didn't have many suggestions. You almost wonder if he accidentally got poisoned or drugged on his walk, but we've ruled that out since the issue apparently started last night and his symptoms seem to be changing. We're making plans to go see his neurologist asap (like driving 4 hrs tonight so he can see his doctor tomorrow morning), but I am wondering if the raw food/prilosec/gas pills could present something like this. Or, are we dealing with 2 different situations simultaneously (one in his gut, and one in his brain).
Anyway, that's the story. It's so difficult when they can't just tell you in plain English what's going on...!
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Re: mysterious symptoms
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#374183 - 02/27/2013 10:19 PM |
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Why the Prilosec? That is, besides the accidental double-dosing of the NSAID, was there any symptom of a G.I. effect from it?
Has this dog ever had any kind of seizure before? How did the sensitivity to light and sound come across?
The vet didn't mention possible gastric dilatation without volvulus (bloat without torsion)? Bloat without torsion can start, perhaps resolve partially with passing gas, resume or recur .... there is NOT always an immediate progression to torsion.
Bloat would be way up on my list from where I sit:
"Shaky. Anxious. Pacing. Subdued. He did have a bulge in his lower abdomen and blew out a bunch of gas."
What is happening right now? Is the dog comfortable? Is there or was there any retching, drooling, etc.? Is there any bulge now? Is the dog pacing or panting?
How far are you from an e-vet?
(I'm not a health professional. To me, there are several bloat symptoms mentioned. I would much rather post something way off and unnecessary than withhold it because it may not be applicable, when there are any bloat symptoms at all. I am PMing Matt too.)
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Re: mysterious symptoms
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#374184 - 02/27/2013 09:50 PM |
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http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/gastric-volvulus-bloat-dogs-life-threatening-emergency
"Signs of Bloat
The classic signs of bloat are restlessness and pacing, salivation, retching, unproductive attempts to vomit, and enlargement of the abdomen. The dog may whine or groan when you press on his belly. Thumping the abdomen produces a hollow sound.
Unfortunately, not all cases of bloat present with typical signs. In early bloat the dog may not appear distended, but the abdomen usually feels slightly tight. The dog appears lethargic, obviously uncomfortable, walks in a stiff-legged fashion, hangs his head, but may not look extremely anxious or distressed. Early on it is not possible to distinguish dilatation from volvulus."
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Re: mysterious symptoms
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#374186 - 02/27/2013 10:15 PM |
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About gas accumulation alone (bloat, or dilatation) and gas which causes the stomach to rotate (torsion, or volvulus):
Bloat can occur on its own, or as a precursor to torsion. Both conditions can be life-threatening, although it often takes longer for a straightforward gastric dilatation without volvulus to become critical. “Bloats without torsion can last for minutes to hours, even days in low-level chronic situations, without it becoming life-threatening. But with torsion, the dog can progress to shock rapidly, even within minutes,” explains Alicia Faggella DVM, DACVECC, a board-certified specialist in veterinary emergency and critical care.
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/8_1/features/15682-1.html
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Re: mysterious symptoms
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#374187 - 02/27/2013 10:25 PM |
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Hi Connie - I did specifically ask the vet if it could be torsion but she said no. That was around 3 hrs ago.
Apparently now (my mother just called a second ago) he's panting and walking around and indicating he wants to go for a walk so she's going to take him out. Then it sounds like we might be heading off for the 4 hr drive to the Animal Care Center in Rhonert Park (CA) where his neurologist will be in in the morning.
I'm not sure about the rest of his status or symptoms but will check this information with my parents when I get to their house and will post back here this evening as I am able -
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Re: mysterious symptoms
[Re: Matt Lang ]
#374188 - 02/27/2013 10:42 PM |
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Hi Connie - I did specifically ask the vet if it could be torsion but she said no. That was around 3 hrs ago. Apparently now (my mother just called a second ago) he's panting and walking around and indicating he wants to go for a walk so she's going to take him out. Then it sounds like we might be heading off for the 4 hr drive to the Animal Care Center in Rhonert Park (CA) where his neurologist will be in in the morning.
I'm not sure about the rest of his status or symptoms but will check this information with my parents when I get to their house and will post back here this evening as I am able -
I was asking about bloat without torsion.
Now he is panting and restless? I would not head for a 4-hour-away vet.
I would head for the closest e-vet. I would go right now.
JMO. I'm not a health professional ; this is just my (strong) opinion.
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Re: mysterious symptoms
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#374193 - 02/27/2013 11:14 PM |
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He's saying SOMETHING is wrong with all the panting and restlessness.
I'm with Connie.
Please keep us updated at your convenience.
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Re: mysterious symptoms
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#374195 - 02/28/2013 12:09 AM |
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Hi guys - no panting right now. He's currently just lying down and resting comfortably. It's very mysterious. He was panting when he had his thing this afternoon (which I'm calling a panic attack for now). He calmed down a *little* bit at the vet when we turned the lights off. When they left with him, he walked around the parking lot a little and then was mellow and calmer when he got into the car. (btw, he's never been anxious at the vet before). When he got home, they said he just wanted to lay on his bed and didn't want to get up to eat, but he did eat ok laying down when they brought his food to him. A while later, he got up and was pacing around and indicating he wanted to go out asap. They took him on a short walk and he peed a few times but didn't have any diharrea or anything that seemed like an emergency. Walked fairly well (for him). When he got home, he went to his bed and went to sleep which is where is now and seems a little "down" but otherwise comfortable.
He wasn't panting during his weird sedate/disoriented episode last night. My mom is worried that he's having pain in his back where the surgery was, so she wants to get him down to his neurologist. If Shiloh can't see him tomorrow morning early, he won't be able to see him until Mon morning.
I'm not sure what to think. Could be gas pains - he apparently blew out a lot last night - but he doesn't seem bloated now. I wasn't in the room for most of his vet visit today so I don't know what she said about all that. I'm not sure about the backpain either. I'm wondering if he had gas issues combined with an onset of cognitive disorder, which I was reading about last night.
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Re: mysterious symptoms
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#374196 - 02/28/2013 12:14 AM |
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PS. I should add that he seemed relatively ok today until this afternoon when my parents said he got shaky. That's why they took him to the vet. At the vet's office is where he had the "panic attack" and was panting. And then the panting stopped when they left the vet office. No other panting that I know of.
Also, the vet didn't seem to think that he was in any kind of life-threatening emergency today. She didn't know what was going on but she did seem to think that he could probably wait until next week to see his neurologist.
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Re: mysterious symptoms
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#374201 - 02/28/2013 08:44 AM |
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