Folks,

I was hoping that someone could help me work through some issues with my training. I have a young male GSD, 20 mo old, BH, that I'm training using Motivational Retrieve. I have already purchased and watched Ed's Bernard Flinks video on M.R. I saw how calmly Itor was holding the dumbbell, and how close he was sitting. Very impressive.

I've got a lot of work to get there from here... My dog is a natural retriever. Anything I throw he will always bring back so that temperment characteristic works in my favor. But, he will not hold the dumbbell calm, instead he chews. Even worse, he doesn't want to sit in close to me. Even worse, he doesn't want to look at me while holding the dumbbell. He wants to turn his head, ears squashed back. Can we say "avoidance" boys and girls? :rolleyes:

So, I put up the dumbbell and have switched to using a stiff jute bringsel. I figure I've got to get him to hold this nice and calm before going back to the dumbbell. I've made some marginal success, but I'm getting some conflicting advice on how to deal with this. One guy, will say, "just ignore the chewing and only praise when he's calm." Another guy will reach down and grab the dumbbell ends if his dog is chewing it and lift the dog of its feet if he starts chewing, to force him to grip solid. Other guys are honest enough to say "I don't know what to say because I've never had this problem."

The avoidance behavior worries me more than the "symptoms" because my goal in training is keep training FUN and upbeat and motivational so that my dog WANTS to work with me.

Has anyone had to work through this issue with their own dog?

Please reply to this post, or else send private email to schhbabe@hotmail.com<br />
Thanks!

Yvette

Have you watched the "Drive, Focus, and Grip" and "Preparing Your Dog for the Helper" videos? They are GREAT and confront the chewing issue head on. They tell you exactly what to do to stop the chewing.

As to the 2nd question... Been there, seen that. I've watched the Drive, Grip, and Focus video and I don't have chewing problems in other areas, like his bitework. His grip on the sleeve is full and sure.

As to the 1st question... I've used 90% motivational techniques to teach obedience. I started with some food in his puppy days to teach basic positions, but since he's got way more prey drive than food drive, now I use the toy for heeling and the other obedience stuff. I do use corrections when necessary, especially for the out. My boy is very prey possessive, so the out is a problem. "into my arms" does not solve this for my little prey monster. Even showing him a second toy is no guarantee to get him to release his grip. But other than the Out I don't need to touch the prong collar hardly at all. Does that answer your questions?

Yvette

I think , maybe i am wrong, the into somebodies arms is a procedure to keep the stress level down during the out. Y our problem is that your dog is confused about his toy tug dumbell whatever .Is it his or is it yours. Unless you can hold the tug in front of his face and he will not bite untill you release this issue will never be solved with food or a second toy. The goal is to teach the dog the prey item is yours and that he can grip it and get a game with you only when you free him to do so. BLACK AND WHITE. Go back to the first grade . Hold the tug in front of your body and let him grip the tug and shake itwhile you have a hold of it. Next step freeze the toy and gently say out one time if he contiues to fight say no no no very calmly until he outs the tug toy whatever and then start start the game up with your release command,ok ,free . the dumbell issue and the chewy mess is conflict ,you are in the grey area with the dog go back to the first grade, take complete and utter charge of the tug. What does it matter what he is gripping a tug a dumbell a sleeve , he will naturally improve his grip and out when you take away his confusion and he understands out good no and ok and until he is a 4.0 at this the frustration will never go away. the best thing about this training all you need is the dog a tug and some strong arms and alot of patience. The only words this dog would hear from my know it all mouth, are out good no and ok until this was as clear as glacial water. No protection no tracking only these words . JUST MY OPINION . GOOD LUCK AND SLOW DOWN

Peter,
You're exactly right, the taking "into my arms" is done to calm the dog and a variation of that method is Bernhard Flinks main training tech. for decreasing chewy grips. ( believe me, I practiced it for the past two weeks with him to improve my showlines bitch's less than perfect grip.)

Peter,

I don't think you've got the problem diagnosed correctly. If I understand you right, you ascribe the chewiness to the fact that he does not understand that this object is mine, and not his. In reality, this is clear to him because I can sit him in front of me and hold the bringsel or dumbbell inches from his nose and he does not take it until I tell him "Bring" and then he immediately snatches it.

When I read his behavior, the chewing and looking away, I see signs of avoidance, not prey aggression. So what I want to learn is how to work through the avoidance problem. This is not an Out problem per se, not like he has the ball and we're playing and he does not want to out.

Does that clear things up?

Yvette

P.S. You lost me on the rabbit story.

Yvette,
If it's any help, Bernhard says that most chewing behavior, especially when the dog is close to you, is secondary to conflict about losing the item ( but it sounds like you know that already <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Peter, is English your second language?

mr robert would you be so kind as to give your opinion on the grip dumbell issue i would love to hear what you have to say step bye step to resolve Yvettes issue please i am also interested in your thoughts on this PS my first langauge is bulgarian. I f you could please give a very detailed solution not just a overview , thank you so much mr, robert

It was just a question smartass, I've been wondering because I can only half understand your posts. I asked because I figured it might be a language thing, I wouldn't want to continue to just assume that you're an idiot.


As to the DB issue, I'll give my solution, but I think the training approach I take is pretty different than what has been done here. Different than the Flinks method as well.


My solution involves a supply of tasty food, a few weeks, and an e-collar.


I have always had problems with the retrieves and it all stems from the method I chose to use to train it. Essentially I attempted poorly to use the DB as a prey item. I would build drive for the DB and teach the dog to grip it on command, I would use fishing line to attempt to keep the dog's grip firm by giving back pressure. I would also not break down the exercise, but would throw out the DB and let the dog retrieve it while trying to maintain the grip. Once the dog had the basics down I would have to end up using some force to out because of the intense prey attraction that I had built with the DB.

It doesn't work well, you run into problems with grip, chewing, avoidance, blah, blah, blah, blah. . . You need a dog that takes a natural firm grip for it to work well and who outs without a fuss.

I'm guessing, Yvette, that you did something remotely similar to this to train the retrieve?


How exactly did you train it Yvette, start to now?