I have a 7 month old east/west mix shepherd that I'm starting for schutzhund. Hes high drive, as indicated by my arms and legs being scratched to hell. I haven't done alot of obedience, only food-drive stuff, don't want to over-dominate him too fast. He's nuts for the tug and ball that he's been teased with since I got him. Other tugs, not so much. That said, the recall and retrieve are causing me issues..

When I do recalls with him, I have someone hold him while I walk away calling him, he pulls like pretty hard, and barks for me, but when they let him go, even if I take off running, he doesnt come all the way to me, he turns away at the last second. Same thing with fetch, he runs straight at me and 10 feet away turns away...

When I do two-hose, he gets a little better. I use the soft bite toy and the ball on a string, he'll bring the ball straight to me, but the bite toy he drops 10-15 feet from me and then comes the rest of the way for the ball... Is it because I'm teasing him with these toys and hes trying to keep the toys from me or something?

I'm fairly happy with how hes coming along for 7 months, but I've never seen that turn-away behavior before, just wondering what it is and how to deal with it..

Henry,
I'm not sure what you mean about not having done a lot of obedience with him because you don't want to "over-dominate him too fast." You could have been doing obedience since you have had him keeping it strictly motivational with food and toys without any compulsion.
On the recall, do you use the ball and let him know you have it before someone holds him back? Since he likes the ball so much, he should come all the way to you for the ball on the recall. Also, since he likes the ball so much, I'd play the two ball game instead of the two hoses game, since he will bring the ball all the way to you. I'd use two balls on a string, that way you can play some tug with him when he brings the ball to you and then get him to out for the next ball to be thrown. I wouldn't let him get in the habit of outing the ball before you tell him to.If you don't think he'll hold it until he brings it all the way back and you can play some tug, try getting him to out the ball before he outs it on his own right as he gets back to you. Just don't teach him it is okay to out the toy unless you tell him to.

Have you been reaching out and grabbing him when he gets close? That will cause a dog to play the keep away game. Same with the recall. He need some motivation to come all the way in. With my 5 month old pup, I didn't take his kong from him for almost the first month. After that, if he wanted to play tug or have me throw it again, I would squat down and hold my hands out without moving. He realized he had to push it into my hands if the game was to go on. It didn't take long for him to figure this out. He only dropped it short a few times. I would pull my hands in and look away repeating the "Bring". That made him crazy to get my attention and he would get the kong and bring it right to me. He's a very bold, but handler soft pup. I've been doing motivational obedience since he was 7 wks old. It hasn't hurt him at all.

Guess I should clarify... I'm only doing motivational obedience with him, and not alot of it, a few short sessions a day. Been doing those since day one.

Yes, I reach out to grab his leash when he comes to me, I'll have to stop that. I was thinking of getting a second ball, and maybe some food...

Also, with the ball, he trips over the rope and drops it while carrying it, he goes and picks it back up, but that drives me nuts:-/

I'll also try letting him keep it till he gives it to me.

Thanks for the advice by the way!

Shorten the string on the ball.

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I would pull my hands in and look away repeating the "Bring". That made him crazy to get my attention and he would get the kong and bring it right to me.

And that really works!
Had the same problem with our male dog who developed the habit of dropping the kong several yards away on two-ball. Turning your back to him, hiding the second kong, and repeating "bring" forced him to pick up the kong again and bring it around to you.
Didn't take long for the dog to realize the game stopped if he didn't return that kong into a human hand.

Henry, I have a suggestion about the recall. If your dog is ball crazy this will work. sit your dog or have someone hold the dog and stand 10 ft away or so. put a ball in your hands and cup it down in front of your crotch area. call the dog to you and make him sit. Now dont worry about straight sits yet. when the dog nudges his nose into your hands to get the ball then give it to him. This can be repeated many times without tiring the dog. Now once your satisfied with the dog coming correctly and sitting infront then you can correct the straight sit. once the dog comes and sits in front then use your foot to kick her ass end into postion. You can keep the ball in your hands and take a step back with the come command and the dog will follow that ball. then dont give it to her until you are satisfied. it is hard to explain in a post, but I tell you that a trainer taught me this method and I have a dog that has the best recall I have ever seen. Anybody thats seen her can agree. hope this helps.

Teach the dog to go through your legs for the ball...Start short or you may end up with a broken leg..YOUR leg <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> . Start with having someone hold the dog or down your dog if he knows that say here with the ball between your OPEN legs and toss it through as the dog is going through the OPEN legs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . It gets the dog coming fast, straight and all the way. Then when the dog is coming from a decent distance and running through my legs..I start throwing in some formal fronts with it and mixing it up between through the legs and formal recalls. This also helps then with getting the dog to bring the dumbbell close as he knows rewards come from when he is close and in front..

Same as Karmen - you want that fast in to you and you can then work on the fronts.

Im glad you said that Carmen, I totally forgot to mention. I tried to post too much at once. But, yes, this will help on the dog coming in fast, then on with the formal stuff.