Quote: Connie Sutherland

"" .... refusing to recall out one of 2 times" and "Working on releasing directly into my hand. "

Would you like some help on cleaning up that 50-50 recall? I know many of us have started over with the recall, and a new thread might help others too.

The recall itself is my biggest concern - we haven't worked on it enough. Works fine in the house (even recall from bothering the cats is pretty solid at this point), spotty in the back yard if there are things he'd rather be doing (omg it's a bush-hey look a squirrel-what's that thing in the sky?).

Restrained recall (from me to my husband) across the front yard occurs fairly regularly but if something were to happen and there were serious distraction and he were somehow off-lead or out of the fenced yard, I -am- worried that I would not be able to get his attention back. (Under normal distractions, all I need to do to get him coming to me is call his name and run away ) He did once jump THROUGH the screen of the front porch last summer a neighbor kid was biking off our property. He's not normally unrestrained in that room, I was working on getting him and my son both back in the house and he whipped around and bounced right on through the window. He came back readily with the kid. Still, my heart was in my throat. Needless to say that particular scenario is not to be repeated, ever, if someone is on the front of the property with us, Duke is leashed before the door opens.

As his favorite place to be is where one of us is, I know that's where to start with it - where to go from there is the hard part. I do understand the 'no recall for punishment' and 'no recall for crating'.

Also, can a training to-do list possibly be TOO LONG?

 Quote: Kristin Muntz

Also, can a training to-do list possibly be TOO LONG?

No, as long as you have no artificially imposed time limits. Why not have a long list, as long as you don't let it give you tension or a feeling of being overwhelmed or of "stuff undone."

As long as you keep the feeling of "it does not matter how long it takes" and "foundation is a million times more important than any item on a list," then IMO no, it's not too long.

JMO! Just don't let any list dictate to you.

Like the recall. I don't care if it takes a year ..... it will be proofed for venue and distraction and we will have a good time working on it. Those are my rules. JMO!

 Quote: Kristin Muntz

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

"" .... refusing to recall out one of 2 times" and "Working on releasing directly into my hand. "

Would you like some help on cleaning up that 50-50 recall? I know many of us have started over with the recall, and a new thread might help others too.

The recall itself is my biggest concern - we haven't worked on it enough. Works fine in the house (even recall from bothering the cats is pretty solid at this point), spotty in the back yard if there are things he'd rather be doing (omg it's a bush-hey look a squirrel-what's that thing in the sky?).

Restrained recall (from me to my husband) across the front yard occurs fairly regularly but if something were to happen and there were serious distraction and he were somehow off-lead or out of the fenced yard, I -am- worried that I would not be able to get his attention back. (Under normal distractions, all I need to do to get him coming to me is call his name and run away ) He did once jump THROUGH the screen of the front porch last summer a neighbor kid was biking off our property. He's not normally unrestrained in that room, I was working on getting him and my son both back in the house and he whipped around and bounced right on through the window. He came back readily with the kid. Still, my heart was in my throat. Needless to say that particular scenario is not to be repeated, ever, if someone is on the front of the property with us, Duke is leashed before the door opens.

As his favorite place to be is where one of us is, I know that's where to start with it - where to go from there is the hard part. I do understand the 'no recall for punishment' and 'no recall for crating'.

What you describe is so common ..... this is where I believe many many folks get the recall to, and then stop. Good on you for wanting it to be reliable under distraction!

First, I never never never use the recall if there is any doubt about compliance. Every time the dog refuses, it's reinforced in his head that the recall is optional.

Only if you can reel him in on a long line would you ever use a recall that you had doubts about.

Second, you might want to change the word.

All of this is set out in great detail in the threads posted here http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=26569&page=2#281225 (three threads linked in that post).

But I know we are all happy to answer questions here too. I just thought that the threads linked there would be very good pre-reading.

There are a couple of options to teaching the recall, but either way, as Connie said in the other thread, you will have to RE-teach it to him (and possibly yourself). I went all the way back to the beginning and started over from scratch.

Do you have the Basic Obedience dvd? In that one, Ed demonstrates letting the dog wander a bit, then calling him and marking/rewarding for compliance. Very short distance, 6-10 ft. He than builds on it by tossing something that the dog wants, and recalling the dog before it gets to the item. A long line can be used as a back-up to make sure the dog doesn't ignore you or leave the scene.

The other method is to put the dog on a line with a prong collar, call him, correct him, and reel him in if he still refuses.

I had good success with the motivational method.

eta... we were typing at the same time. Sorry.

Edited by Duane Hull (03/18/2013 12:47 PM)
Edit reason: eta

#1
Keep it on a long line in any situation where there is a remote possibility of even a HINT of distraction. This needs to be done till the dog forgets it has a choice.

#2 NEVER call the dog if it's off lead when you know the possibility of a bad choice is high on the dog's what to do list. See rule #1.

#3
Proof, proof, proof.....and have fun! Review rule #1

"I had good success with the motivational method."

Me too.

I know many use corrections .... I do not. Certainly not in the teaching stage, and you are in it. You will be in it until you've proofed this a zillion ways, IMO.

I agree 100% with Duane about starting over. IMO, starting over when you have an unreliable recall with the dog already having learned that it's optional (or, in other cases, learned to play "chase me") is much much better than doing a patch job.

Recalling away from something the dog wants is way down the road, with other high-level distractions, for my own method.

Starting close, as Duane mentioned, is crucial. And staying close! That is, distance is one of the things you will proof for (it's a distraction, so venue, distance, distractions .... all proofed for), so it's increased only gradually. You would never go from a recall at six feet with no distraction to a recall from twenty feet in a nice odorous field.

This gradual proofing is the very essence of "foundation."

Billboard!

 Quote: Bob Scott

#1
Keep it on a long line in any situation where there is a remote possibility of even a HINT of distraction. This needs to be done till the dog forgets it has a choice.

#2 NEVER call the dog if it's off lead when you know the possibility of a bad choice is high on the dog's what to do list. See rule #1.

#3
Proof, proof, proof.....and have fun! Review rule #1

And Bob's Rule #3 ..... YES! Including the fun!

Teaching the recall is your chance to party down with the dog. As you will see in the linked threads, the recall will quickly be associated in the dog's head with excellent stuff, fun, tugs and treats, games and praise.

This is really my beginning recall step ..... to use it before every good thing, and, conversely, to make sure it results in good things.

I will pick something that is the 'bomb proof recall command' and work from that starting on the long line - easy to do during walks and in the back yard. Something that is as excited and high pitched as possible would probably be GREAT for him since he ramps right up that way. As long as I don't let him think that jumping on me and biting my arm is part of it.

I have to let my son NOT hear it so he doesn't start parroting it, we had that conversation this weekend.

I'll check in on this one in 2 weeks.