Hello All - I am researching electronic collars and "'how to" information and found your site. Wow. Such a wealth of information!

A bit about me. I live with my my dog, Kippy (14 month old Golden Retriever) and 2 domestic short-haired cats, Lucy and Serena, in NYC. Lucy, at 10 pounds, has given herself many jobs over the years, but some of her best work is as a "canine behavior modification specialist." She knows just what to do with a boisterous puppy, so Kippy has a lot of respect for cats. ;-)

Kippy is a wonderful dog. I researched breeders for about 2 years and found one in Canada about 1 hour away from our summer cottage (on a small island on a huge lake. a water / sporting dog's paradise). Kippy learned to swim at 10 weeks old. It was actually kinda funny. I walked into the water till I was knee deep and he followed me, but when he reached me, he stopped swimming. I bought a small mesh harness for him that he wore whenever we were on the shoreline so I could keep him from sinking....

One of the things I was interested in doing with Kippy is therapy work and learn to read work (children read to dogs). The breeder interviewed me for a long time and asked me if there was anything I'd like to do with my dog, and chose for me the perfect dog. Kippy has a gentle way about him, and will approach anyone who smiles at him. There are breeders and then there are breeders. Kippy not only has the beauty of a classic Golden Retriever, he also has clean genetics and that wonderful, goofy, it's-all-about-the-love personality.

He is also a stubborn little boy and decides when he wants to listen... So he knows he shouldn't bark at Lucy when she taunts him, but he barks at her once or twice a day. He knows not to chase scooters and skateboards, but he can't resist some times. He knows that "here Kippy" means stop what you're doing and come to me, but some times a smell or a stick or a dog is more interesting...

We have use reward based training with a marker word and the clicker to great effect, and when he's physically next to me I can correct him, but.... I can't always be 1 foot away. So, I started researching electronic collars and found my way here.

And that's it, really.

Thanks!

Hadley, welcome! There was a thread a while back regarding e-collar hardware and a lot of us seemed to like some of the Einstein products. You might dig that up and give it a read.

Leerburg did a video on e-collars for pets but more recently they produced a video with Michael Ellis on the subject. I've got both and prefer the Michael Ellis video but both have good info.

The Leerburg video is more complete but the Michael Ellis video is more clear and detailed about collar selection and adjustment. It just doesn't go much into actual usage for training specific activities since it's really like video 1 in a 2 video series. There's an additional Michael Ellis video that's just come up for pre-order and it looks like it will go into training specific activities. I'd recommend watching the first Michael Ellis video and then getting a collar... You might find your ideas about which collar you need changing after watching the video so that's why I say I'd watch the video first. hopefully the second video will be out by the time you are ready to buy a collar.

I'd watch videos first too.

Was this a scenario where you were thinking about the e-collar?

"So he knows he shouldn't bark at Lucy when she taunts him, but he barks at her once or twice a day. "

Oh, and WELCOME!

Good to have you.

Welcome to the forum, Hadley.

I hate to jump on someone's first post but it might be helpful to better understand why the need for an e-collar. At such an early age and such a relatively low drive, not that challenging dog, I can't help but feel an e-collar might be a bit of overkill or a crutch in lieu of working hard on training and pack leadership. Also, with such a young dog, why would he get those opportunities to chase skateboards and scooters if he were securely on a leash, as every puppy should be?

Greg, I'm glad you just out and said it.

I'm sure the O.P. won't see it as jumping on him. It sounded like an open suggestion-seeking post.

That recall ..... I might start working on that with gradually-increasing distraction. That is, the huge distraction of skateboards overrode the recall, and that might tell me that I have not proofed the recall sufficiently for distractions I know the dog will face.

I'd also really reconsider using the recall in situations where the dog might not comply and I have no recourse (long line). That is, I'd be proofing it with gradually-introduced distractions and changes of venue and not testing it in situations where he was likely to fail, as this is kind of demonstrating to the dog that the recall is optional.


For me, for this dog, all this is foundation work --- upbeat marker work.

Kippy sounds to me like a terrific dog who needs more proofing on some basic ob.

Greg:

Kippy is always on a leash. We live in New York City and the laws are strict.

Some skateboards have silent wheels. This makes them impossible to hear over the sound of traffic when they approach from behind. Teenagers think it's fun to tease dogs while they are skateboarding. They approach from behind, very fast, within a foot of Kippy, and occasionally reach down to pet him as they fly by yelling and laughing at their own daring. So, that is the problem / challenge.

I won't bother you with the details about how I've tried to meet this challenge, but the e-collar is the last resort. Kippy know's who's boss, and it's not him. We train every day, formally and informally. I always have treats and his favorite squeaky toy with me. I use every "real life" opportunity to train and reinforce the training.

Boy, Hadley, I'd have some trouble controlling my anger. AARRGGHH!

I sympathize to the max.


Is it doable to keep the dog "inside" (closest to the buildings) and the human on the "outside" (exposed to passersby, etc.)? (I'm thinking that such "daring" from behind would override my proofing, too, and that I'd probably have to insert myself between such a trigger and my dog.)

It's good to hear he's leashed so he really can't chase skateboards, but it's a frustrating situation nonetheless.

 Quote: Bryan Simms

Hadley, welcome! There was a thread a while back regarding e-collar hardware and a lot of us seemed to like some of the Einstein products. You might dig that up and give it a read.

Leerburg did a video on e-collars for pets but more recently they produced a video with Michael Ellis on the subject. I've got both and prefer the Michael Ellis video but both have good info.

The Leerburg video is more complete but the Michael Ellis video is more clear and detailed about collar selection and adjustment. It just doesn't go much into actual usage for training specific activities since it's really like video 1 in a 2 video series. There's an additional Michael Ellis video that's just come up for pre-order and it looks like it will go into training specific activities. I'd recommend watching the first Michael Ellis video and then getting a collar... You might find your ideas about which collar you need changing after watching the video so that's why I say I'd watch the video first. hopefully the second video will be out by the time you are ready to buy a collar.

+1

Appreciate the clarification, Hadley. Without being there with you, I obviously can't picture exactly what you're having to deal with so I apologize if I misunderstood. Hopefully you'll get some better suggestions from the others here.

My initial thought after reading your post was concern over jumping straight to an e-collar and, like you stated, should not be your first choice. Hopefully, there is a way to gradually desensitize your Golden in a less demanding setting, perhaps by even recruiting some of the very same people causing you all the grief with their skateboards and scooters, as was mentioned on a different recent thread. I put a lot of stock on the use of the prong collar and the "leave it" command as a way to control the impulse to lunge. In the split second the need comes up to use it, I'm not sure an e-collar could be used correctly or fast enough without your finger being constantly on the trigger or button. Then again, I don't use an e-collar so I can't say for sure. I always considered an e-collar as a more effective tool when working at distances from the dog.