Good morning!

I stumbled upon this website in search for training and obedience tips. After reading a bunch of articles and browsing the online shop, there were some questions to which I could not find the answers on the site.

I have a Pembroke Welsh Corgi who's just turned 8 months. He's adorable in every sense - easy housebreaking, walks very well on a leash, eats and plays a lot, very friendly overall. The thing is, we use a flat buckle collar and leash on our walks, but we don't plan to keep a walking collar on him at all times; the collar we plan to eventually use will be only for his name and vaccination tags, and not strong enough to contain him if he eventually decides to run after something.

So I found the British style slip lead on the Leerburg shop and found the concept amazing - no need for a collar to snap, quick and easy to put on and take off. Our dog's not a puller, so there won't be much need to leash correct him. Problem is, I read somewhere that Ed himself does not like choke collars because of the damage they cause to a dog's throat. Is that the case with this slip lead? Or does it only apply to metal chokes? Would this lead be good for us? And I would also appreciate any input from more experienced owners and trainers; this is our first dog, and as much as we try to do things right, there will always be something we are missing.

I consider a slip lead to be more of an emergency lead or something to move a dog from a room to another room (such as at the vet's office), or out to the yard for a potty trip.

They are very handy to have around. I have one of the LB ones.

The product says"If you do not keep a collar on your dog and need a quick way to put a lead on for a walk - this is the perfect lead! We use these British Leads every day here at Leerburg Kennels. You can adjust the neck size to fit any size dog! We love it for use during housetraining puppies and for moving larger dogs from the office to the front yard."

That's how I use it ... a yard potty trip.


You mention not keeping a collar on at all times. I wouldn't leave my own house/fenced yard without it, though. That pretty much defeats its I.D. purpose (tags, etc.), IMO.


Your flat collar should be strong enough to hold even if he tries to run.


I have both of these types:

http://leerburg.com/flatleathercollar.htm

http://leerburg.com/794.htm


All JMO.

"And I would also appreciate any input from more experienced owners and trainers; this is our first dog, and as much as we try to do things right, there will always be something we are missing."

Are you marker-training?

Congratulations on your first dog! I know you will get more replies.

You may want to post a little intro, too, perhaps with a picture, at
http://leerburg.com/webboard/topiclist.php?forum_id=146

Welcome to the board, Kumiho! Any collar or lead of the slip type has the potential to choke or even cause damage to a dog's throat, but only if it is tightened severely or for a lengthy time. However, I see these as training devices, or as Connie mentioned, for a quick-trip-outside, and not really what I want for everyday use. (Also, something similar is used in the conformation show ring.) I also keep one of the slip-type leads in each of my cars for emergencies.

If you have an 8-month-old pup who walks nicely and does not pull on the leash, why not stick with a soft, flat buckle collar, adjusted snugly enough so it cannot pull over his head, and then use a comfortable soft leather lead for walks?

The slip-style lead you are describing has a stopper that has to be adjusted snugly against the dog's neck each time it is put on, and then loosened each time you take it off. (Don't ever use a slip lead that doesn't have that stopper; otherwise, the whole thing can come off the dog's head very easily.) So it just seems to me that snapping a leash on and off wouldn't be any more difficult or time-consuming.

I'm curious to know what the difference is between what you describe as your walking collar and the one that will have the tags on it that you say wouldn't be strong enough to hold him if he pulls hard?

Congratulations on getting your first dog. Corgis are great! Hope you'll feel free to ask any and all questions.

The context of Ed's statement is "using a choke collar for corrections". If you are using it as a "Walking collar" in the scenarios that Connie highlighted (i.e. few corrections), the slip lead is safe.

I use a flat collar for my dog's tags and leave it on all of the time, including for walks. If we are going somewhere that there are distractions for my dog, I use the Leerburg DD collar, which is a nylon slip collar
http://leerburg.com/746.htm

as a backup with the DD collar leash.
http://leerburg.com/5131.htm

I use the DD collar snapped to the long end, with either a flat or prong collar snapped to the primary snap.

Connie: I am sorry, it seems my wording was a bit confusing. The collar we chose to be his 'permanent' one, so to say, is not the strongest one and we feel it could not hold him in case he bolts - it was designed to snap open should it be caught in something and not strangle him when not under our supervision, such as if he somehow runs away from home. The tags are just another precaution anyways; he is also microchipped, so in the worst case scenario, should he run away AND get caught in something by his collar, he could still free himself and be identified by a vet.

We always leave our apartment with his walking leash and collar, which are kind of bulky but very strong; he's never allowed out without them. Because of that 'bulkiness' we chose not to put tags on his walking collar and let it be his 'permanent' one, partly because it looks plain unattractive and partly because I'm afraid he might have an accident when unattended; my father had a dog who strangled himself by his collar when it got caught in the gate and we were away from home.

We considered purchasing a Chinook KeepSafe Collar, which would allow for that double use of safe tagging+walking, but couldn't find it in local stores and had bad experiences with them in the past regarding customs and importing fees. We live in Brazil.

Thank you for your input, though! I loved every single collar in the store - that hemp one seems very comfortable and the leather one is just so classy. Maybe we'll purchase a brown leather collar and lead when he gets older!

As for marker training, yes, it's fantastic. We use a word marker instead of a clicker - Ed's advice about clickers or verbal markers was very spot-on. I can't always repeat the same intensity and inflection every time I say the marker (so hard when I'm excited like a young mom seeing their baby take their first steps!) but I'm always trying to get better at it, and I feel we're both making a lot of progress. It's been only five months, and I work long hours, but the few quality training time we have is working wonders. He handles like a dream, he's so eager to learn and please! I'll post an intro later. Thank you very much for your help!

Edited by Connie Sutherland (08/07/2013 12:29 PM)
Edit reason: fix broken post

IMO, the very time he needs tags on his collar is when you're walking him.

I'm not totally following this:
"The collar we chose to be his 'permanent' one, so to say, is not the strongest one and we feel it could not hold him in case he bolts - it was designed to snap open should it be caught in something and not strangle him when not under our supervision, such as if he somehow runs away from home. The tags are just another precaution anyways; he is also microchipped, so in the worst case scenario, should he run away AND get caught in something by his collar, he could still free himself and be identified by a vet. ... We always leave our apartment with his walking leash and collar, which are kind of bulky but very strong; he's never allowed out without them. Because of that 'bulkiness' we chose not to put tags on his walking collar and let it be his 'permanent' one, partly because it looks plain unattractive and partly because I'm afraid he might have an accident when unattended; my father had a dog who strangled himself by his collar when it got caught in the gate and we were away from home."

When is he wearing the collar with tags?

BTW, brackets broke your post above. It's an idiosyncrasy of the program .... brackets are used only in tags.

If you use parentheses instead (the marks over the 9 and the zero), you'll be good.

@ Cheri: Yes, what I found great about these Mendota collars is that stopper - the ones available in Brazil do not have that! I cannot imagine how someone would consider those safe for an outside walk, even a short one. And yes, corgis have been my favourite breed for years now. It's a dream come true!

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@Duane: Thank you for your words! I am somewhat squeamish about the DD collar, although I find it great for stronger-tempered or aggressive dogs. Might have saved some dogs my father owned throughout his life - he had a lot of guard dogs and some of them had to be put down for extremely aggressive behaviour. So unfortunate. But still I hesitate in 'OMG STRANGLING MY SWEET PUPPY'! Yes, call me soft hearted, but I'm not yet ready for 'stronger' correction methods... luckily we got ourselves a really sweet pup! I'd probably have to resort to prongs and DDs with a more driven one, they really seem to make a BIG difference.

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@ Connie: He'll be wearing the collar with tags all the time, walk or no walk, inside or outside. You see, I sometimes have people over at home, we're planning on painting the walls and do renovations, there are some occasions when he could bolt for the door - although we always keep him behind his puppy gate when there is higher traffic in the house, so to say. We live in a small apartment building and we're afraid he could bolt through the cars entrance which is not very safe, etc. I know it's kind of silly given we're always very careful and there are quite a number of doors and gates in the way from the apartment to the street, but as a first time puppy owner I want to take all precautions possible.

And silly me! I have this habit of using brackets instead of parentheses. Thank you for the heads up!

I'm a little confused, too. I will say that I have multiple collars for multiple uses. Anytime I leave the home, they wear a nylon buckle or martingale collar that has all the tags on it.

If you just want some ID on your dog's collar, without dangling tags, these are great:

http://www.boomerangtags.com/page.php?c=collartags&k=h

Or you can get a collar that has the dog's contact info printed directly on the collar in a contrasting color.

eta: We were posting at the same time. I too am extremely cautious to the point of being obsessive about my dogs not ever getting loose without their ID! Yes, the Mendota leads are the ones I have. They come in a variety of thicknesses and lengths. Don't even consider a DD collar for your dog. They don't have that stopper. They have their place, but I don't believe it would be appropriate for your dog or your situation.

Edited by Cheri Grissom (08/07/2013 12:55 PM)
Edit reason: eta