Hi, how do I know for sure that my dog knows a command so that I can correct for non compliance?

Also, how much to correct (leerburg says that nagging corrections do more harm than good and I definitely nag corrected for months)

Thank you

Hi, Natalie,

This is a good question, because many owners way overestimate the "knowledge" of a command the dog has.

Do you know the term "proofing"? A command has to be thoroughly proofed for changes in venue and for all kinds of distraction.

Distraction is proofed for gradually, in increments, and we don't increase distraction in the same step as increasing, say, distance, or proofing for venue, or introducing duration.


Ask all the questions you want .... MANY folks here are very experienced trainers.


Are you marker training?

lol, are you sure i can ask all the questions i want? i was given problems at another board for asking lots of questions.

this is my first dog, i'm new to training, i just started marker training and i have LOTS of questions.

i'm the type that needs to understand in detail how things work and why they work to be able to successfully implement them and i guess they got annoyed.

i'll ask some and see how it goes here.


i just started marker training, i got 2 Michael Ellis videos, the Power of training dogs with food and Power of playing tug. i really like both his style and Ed's articles, i'd like to be able to stick to their methods and that's why i'm posting here.

"Do you know the term "proofing"? A command has to be thoroughly proofed for changes in venue and for all kinds of distraction.

Distraction is proofed for gradually, in increments, and we don't increase distraction in the same step as increasing, say, distance, or proofing for venue, or introducing duration."

i didn't know the term but i did know that sitting in my apartment is different from sitting in the park.

so, if you don't mind, can you explain how you'd train a command (examples of how you elevate distractions and duration) before you consider your dog knowing a command? for example,
1. first i train sit in the kitchen
2. sit outside
3. sit in the park with people around
4. sit in the park with people around for 2 minutes
5. sit in front of the dog park
6. sit in front of the dog park for 2 minutes
7. sit in front of the dog park for 4 minutes
trained

i'm trying to understand the pattern.


here's my confusion, i think he knows SIT by now, at the very least, he knows that he should SIT while i'm opening the door, we've been doing this for 4 months 4 times a day.

so let's say if he doesn't SIT after i tell him to by the door, do i correct him?
or do i say that since he hasn't been proofed at many other places it doesn't matter that he should definitely know to sit in this one scenario.

am i confusing you?

And one more question for now (or should I start a new thread?)

I'm trying to train him to COME on a long line. What I've been doing is say COME all excited and if he runs to me mark and give treats and praise.

I'm not clear on what to do when he doesn't.

1. How long do I give him to make the attempt to come
2. What do I do if he started coming and then stopped
3. If after whatever time I should wait (from question #1) he doesn't even make the attempt, do I just pull him to me? Do I correct and then pull? I do know that once he's by me there's no correcting, just praise
4. If I had to pull him to me, do I still mark and treat once he's by me?


Do you see how I must understand every step of the way? I find myself not knowing what to do and doing nothing when he does these things and that adds to his confusion I'm sure. Sometimes he gets corrected, others he doesn't, sometimes I pull him, other times I don't.

I must have a game plan and stick to it but it's hard to come up with a game plan. I have 5-10 or more questions for every command. At the other forum people would tell me to stop asking and start doing.

I'm outside with him every day for 2 hours so we definitely ARE doing things, that's how all these questions come up. I start training him and find him do something I didn't expect and I just stand there dumbfounded.

I'm hoping you guys don't mind answering endless questions, I really need help. I do have a trainer but I can't afford to have her move in with me so I can ask her questions as he presents me with them.
I can only hire her for the most pressing serious issues.

"here's my confusion, i think he knows SIT by now, at the very least, he knows that he should SIT while i'm opening the door, we've been doing this for 4 months 4 times a day.

so let's say if he doesn't SIT after i tell him to by the door, do i correct him?
or do i say that since he hasn't been proofed at many other places it doesn't matter that he should definitely know to sit in this one scenario."


I'm not confused, but I think something is missing. Why do you think he failed in your example? I suspect confusion or distraction.

If you SAID sit (not just expected him to sit because you were performing a door thing) and he did not, what is your guess for why he did not?

Also .... what you might want to do it post a short video clip of the behavior in question.

yep, he's sniffing)))) so it's distraction. so what do i do? do i correct? how do i overcome the distractions?


also, you're right, sometimes i don't say it, and he sits if i wait a few seconds. i shouldn't? i don't fault him if he doesn't though, not in those cases. i just say SIT.

also, sometimes, VERY RARELY, i don't make him sit (if there's a dog outside, or neighbors, or i have heavy large garbage bags in my hands)

"I'm trying to train him to COME on a long line. What I've been doing is say COME all excited and if he runs to me mark and give treats and praise.

I'm not clear on what to do when he doesn't.

1. How long do I give him to make the attempt to come
2. What do I do if he started coming and then stopped
3. If after whatever time I should wait (from question #1) he doesn't even make the attempt, do I just pull him to me? Do I correct and then pull? I do know that once he's by me there's no correcting, just praise
4. If I had to pull him to me, do I still mark and treat once he's by me?"


OK, I see why people were saying to stop talking and start doing.

1. He should be one foot away and you should be all happy and eager and backing away and calling. What are you doing at this stage calling him from so far away that you have to pull him to you?

2. If he started to come and stopped, see number one.

3. You are beginning the recall. You and he should be close together and he should want to come ... you are making him want to come by your demeanor, buy backing up and calling, smiling ....

4. It's not "pull him" ... it's "reel him in." No, there is no reward if you had to reel him in.


On the recall, too, I think you should post a short video clip.




Also, read recall posts:

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=22707&page=1#232215

Including this post:

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=22707&page=1#232218

Do you see how much the dog described there WANTS to come, wants to hear that recall, wants to be with you, you who are the best show in town? THIS is where I would put my energy at this point in time.

 Quote: Natalie Rynda

yep, he's sniffing)))) so it's distraction. so what do i do? do i correct? how do i overcome the distractions?


also, you're right, sometimes i don't say it, and he sits if i wait a few seconds. i shouldn't? i don't fault him if he doesn't though, not in those cases. i just say SIT.

also, sometimes, VERY RARELY, i don't make him sit (if there's a dog outside, or neighbors, or i have heavy large garbage bags in my hands)

1. Then you have not proofed for distractions.

2. IF YOU DON'T GIVE A COMMAND, what are you correcting him for??



Have you watched the whole Power of Food DVD? Because most of this is answered at length in the DVDs.


And seriously, I think you are really focusing on corrections, when you should be focused on playing and SHORT UPBEAT training sessions.

This is a puppy, right?

"OK, I see why people were saying to stop talking and start doing. "

lol why? too many questions?

i AM doing, maybe the wrong way but i am. if anything, this means that people should make sure they know what they're doing before they "start doing".


anyway, i didn't realize i had to start that close. i will try it from a short distance and see how it goes and then will post a clip if i'm still having problems



"Including this post:

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=22707&page=1#232218

Do you see how much the dog described there WANTS to come, wants to hear that recall, wants to be with you, you who are the best show in town? THIS is where I would put my energy at this point in time. "

i thought that's what i was doing))))) but maybe not enough. i saw your post, i will try to follow your rules, they make sense

9 months, i started marker training late.

"1. Then you have not proofed for distractions."
no, i don't know how to proof. i thought proofing came with corrections. first you teach them what the command means and then you proof it. i thought that means you correct for non compliance.


"2. IF YOU DON'T GIVE A COMMAND, what are you correcting him for?? "
i said i wasn't correcting him if he didn't do it and i didn't ask. only if i asked. and i don't correct hard.

i'm not sure what i should be doing so sometimes i correct lightly, sometimes i don't and just repeat the command 10 times, other times i put him in a sit.

i'm not sure what to do.



"Have you watched the whole Power of Food DVD? Because most of this is answered at length in the DVDs. "

i have, twice but a month ago. i will watch it again today.


"And seriously, I think you are really focusing on corrections, when you should be focused on playing and SHORT UPBEAT training sessions. "

because i guess i'm confused. how do you proof for distractions? you go outside, tell him to sit, he doesn't. what do you do? i thought you corrected.