Jodi Moen wrote 10/21/2013 04:44 PM marker timing #384784 - 10/21/2013 04:44 PM
Jodi Moen Webboard User Reg: 12-28-2010 Posts: 799 Loc: USA Offline	2 quick questions, I think my timing is a tad early, I'm using a toy instead of a treat as Amber is more focused, etc. I realized as I was saying yes, (we were doing target) I was also getting the toy to her at the same time. I should be waiting a few seconds, right? Would counting to five be better so I don't give it (the toy) too early. And... She's cheating, I asked her to target and she gave me a sit, a down and her paw, because this is the first time she's done it outside I expected the confusion but when she knew what I wanted instead of planting her nose firmly she started brushing by my hand with her chin. The question is when she cheats, I say nope, and then repeat the command. How often should I repeat it or should I have her do something else and then retry? My animals are not "like" family, they ARE family.
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Mara Jessup wrote 10/21/2013 05:00 PM Re: marker timing [Re: Jodi Moen ] #384788 - 10/21/2013 05:00 PM
Mara Jessup Webboard User Reg: 12-28-2005 Posts: 2316 Loc: Offline	I mark then throw the reward. Maybe two seconds between the mark and the delivery. It helps to have it ready going into your training session. for example keep your rewarding hand behind your back with the reward so you can distinctly mark the quickly reward with minimal extra movement K-9 Knitter
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Jodi Moen wrote 10/21/2013 07:26 PM Re: marker timing [Re: Jodi Moen ] #384809 - 10/21/2013 07:26 PM
Jodi Moen Webboard User Reg: 12-28-2010 Posts: 799 Loc: USA Offline	In rethinking it, my timing is off with the mark so she gets the mark and reward at the same time, I think tomorrow I'll try putting the toy in my non dominant hand and see if that ensures she gets the mark ahead of the toy. My animals are not "like" family, they ARE family.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 10/21/2013 08:02 PM Re: marker timing [Re: Jodi Moen ] #384817 - 10/21/2013 08:02 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	What I did when I was first learning food rewards: Do it in front of a mirror, just you, mark and reward.
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Jodi Moen wrote 10/21/2013 08:40 PM Re: marker timing [Re: Jodi Moen ] #384823 - 10/21/2013 08:40 PM
Jodi Moen Webboard User Reg: 12-28-2010 Posts: 799 Loc: USA Offline	Will give it a try before we head out tomorrow. Any ideas on the cheating, should I just wait her out? Or re-ask? Edited by Jodi Moen (10/21/2013 08:40 PM) Edit reason: info My animals are not "like" family, they ARE family.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 10/21/2013 08:49 PM Re: marker timing [Re: Jodi Moen ] #384824 - 10/21/2013 08:49 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	I'd probably say "nope" a couple of times, then I'd go to something else if it stayed sloppy, so we could end on an up note, then I'd go back to the place where it was last successful, and move outside a little more gradually (to the doorway, to the porch, etc.). That's JMO. I would much rather go back to our last successful place when we falter.
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Bob Scott wrote 10/22/2013 12:03 AM Re: marker timing [Re: Jodi Moen ] #384832 - 10/22/2013 12:03 AM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	The "cheating" is nothing more then simple confusion. The dog is offering behaviors it knows simply because it doesn't fully comprehend what your asking. When you working on a new command then don't add it to known commands until it's solid. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Brian Couse wrote 10/22/2013 05:06 AM Re: marker timing [Re: Jodi Moen ] #384834 - 10/22/2013 05:06 AM
Brian Couse Webboard User Reg: 04-23-2012 Posts: 97 Loc: New York Offline	If I remember the ME video correctly, the marker must come before the primary reinforcer or reward. There has to be a distinct separation of the two in order for classical conditioning to work.
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Jodi Moen wrote 10/22/2013 06:50 AM Re: marker timing [Re: Bob Scott ] #384838 - 10/22/2013 06:50 AM
Jodi Moen Webboard User Reg: 12-28-2010 Posts: 799 Loc: USA Offline	I probably didn't explain as well as I could have, Amber knows target quite well, we've been working on this in the house for months. I think her initial confusion WAS confusion but right after she offered me solid correct targets, then the cheating began where she is so fixated on the toy that she began brushing her chin past my hand or air touching it. Hope that explains it better. My animals are not "like" family, they ARE family.
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Jodi Moen wrote 10/22/2013 06:51 AM Re: marker timing [Re: Brian Couse ] #384839 - 10/22/2013 06:51 AM
Jodi Moen Webboard User Reg: 12-28-2010 Posts: 799 Loc: USA Offline	That's what I thought, will continue to try to improve my timing. My animals are not "like" family, they ARE family.
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