She was an outdoor/kennel dog and now that she's in rescue she was given to a foster home that wanted to crate train her. She doesn't care about her own mess and will crap all over and then stomp/lay in/splatter it everywhere. The woman fostering her can't deal with it anymore and I've offered to take her the beginning of December.

She (the dog) currently goes to doggy daycare and potties in the appropriate place there. However she has some social anxiety toward new people, and her current foster home has another female dog that has picked on/fought with her and I don't think sending her to day care immediately after I get her is a good idea. There is a good place within walking distance that can do a day-board situation but it's $30 a day and only when they have openings. That doesn't solve the issue of her crapping in a kennel either. She'll just do it there if she's in one.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get her to stop messing up her crate? I'm going to use a plastic kennel so that the solid walls will contain any mess she might make. I'm going to hire a dog walker to visit the three days I'm at work but I'm nervous that she'll be one of those dogs that poops in the kennel for attention and somehow retain a turd large enough to roll in despite my best efforts to work it out of her.

(At this point, I don't know the consistency of her poop but with the splattering comment it makes me think it's soft or she's actually urinating, too. If it's too soft, I'll be working on that and see if it resolves the issue. Anxious dogs do often suffer from liquid squirts they just can't hold onto for a reasonable time. )

You're right that diarrhea is the first thing to identify and address.


Then, after that, my opinion is that a lot of work can change this.

But what I have done with dogs who have been forced to potty in a crate or kennel or have otherwise been indoctrinated to potty in their "den" has involved at least a long weekend of concentrated work. Any chance that this can be arranged?

I've crate-trained dogs who had been kenneled for their entire lives, never exposed to the concept of "potty outside."

I doubt that it's an attention mechanism. I'll bet it's her perception that this is the correct place to go ... even to the point of holding it as much as possible until she's in the crate.

It's not a trick or a quick fix. It takes being outside with her until she HAS to go, and more than one time (hence the long weekend needed). The partying that happens when she must finally relieve herself outside has to be instantaneous and really rewarding. And it has to be repeated.

This is JME.

OH! And don't forget to incorporate that excellent suggestion made a few weeks ago ... the one where you "plant" the dog's poop in your yard in a good potty spot! Then you take her there frequently during the long weekend of "outdoors with the dog."

I only work Thursday through Saturday so I can have 4 days to work with her. I can attempt to get them to arrange transport to me (or go get her myself) on a Sunday or Monday.

So basically wait her out if I have to, throw a party, and don't give her the option of doing it in her crate?

 Quote: SamanthaTopper

I only work Thursday through Saturday so I can have 4 days to work with her. I can attempt to get them to arrange transport to me (or go get her myself) on a Sunday or Monday.

So basically wait her out if I have to, throw a party, and don't give her the option of doing it in her crate?

Exactly. She will have to go eventually. I think it was Tracy who also suggested having a sample of her poop placed somewhere outside where you want her to go. I did not think of that at the time, and it might have hastened the dog's finally releasing her poop. (I believe she did perceive the kennel as "the place" to go, after a life spent in one.)

After she went outside twice (over a long weekend), then I took her out to go every hour, same spot, until I had a good feel for her poop clock. (Luckily I was working at home .... however, I think it was basically turned around within a four-day period.)

I had just learned marker training with the last one, and the mark/reward timing was probably a factor in how fast she learned.

(Diarrhea, of course, will have to be addressed asap, if it turns out that the dog has it.)



ETA
It's not really uncommon, IME, to get a foster or adoptee who has been forced to potty in a kennel or even a crate, and who now perceives it as the correct procedure. So you're fighting a pretty embedded habit. But it hasn't failed yet.






Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/25/2013 11:35 AM)
Edit reason: ETA

BTW, after decades with dogs, I haven't run into a dog who goes in the crate for attention. Or if I have, the attention paid for going outside way overrode it.

I'm pretty confident with your suggestions. Placing her poop somewhere may be an issue because we're in an apartment but there are so many piles that asshats don't clean up I don't see her being shy. There's also a small field nearby where I could plant it out of the way and the brisk walk may stimulate.

Yes!

Also, maybe you could just carry that sample baggy and place its contents at the time.

Who among is not used to having a handful of full baggies?

I hate when I see this because it normally means the dog has been raised to be dirty. I really think it is against every natural instinct they have, dogs do not normally dirty their den.

Gosh, Bogie once tore up the bottom of his crate pad to hide it under when he obviously had no control.

I would do as Connie suggests, basically start at the basics. Easier in Florida with our milder weather but when I get an adult dog in we do a lot of walking until they potty, have a party, and repeat. And repeat. And Repeat. LOL Since I work from home and my major client is in Africa I work a lot of weird hours with the time difference so I'm also able to get them out a lot at night and then my husband has day duty. I know that's not feasible for a lot of people.

Good Luck!

Don't forget the suppository or lubricated kitchen match method of getting an outdoor poop that can be celebrated.
Some dogs who have experienced "housetraining" by owners who don't know how to housetrain become reluctant to allow a person to see them pooping or peeing-----since mistakes made in the house and witnessed caused such a freak-out by the owner.

Also some dogs have learned that a poop in the crate gets them out of the crate pronto. Just one or two times, owner rushing to work, dog put in crate having not finished the am poop cycle, dog poops in crate as owner is leaving, dog is pulled out of crate......They learn that fast.
If that's what you mean by "pooping for attention" , I have certainly seen plenty of that in foster dogs.