Maybe someone can give me some expertise on this. I am new to breeding and just had my first working litter of two pups. One male and one female. They are 7 wks and will bite anything. The female is clearly the dominant one. She picks on the male and gets very aggressive with him, which I know is normal in a working litter. Well my question is: Can a pup this young show signs that it will be handler aggressive as it gets older? The reason I ask this is because while I was making the pup's food one night, the female got into a trashbag and was ripping it up, so I grabbed her by the scruff of the neck and gave a firm "Nay". Well she started growling very violently at me, so I let her know I wuould not tolerate this and she eventually stopped. Another time I was down on the ground just playing around with the pups. Well I was playing a little rough with them (Not anything extreme just rubbing them too hard or whatever) and she did it again. She just started growling violently. She has been doing this since about 5 1/2 weeks. The first time was when the mother was trying to wean and she corrected the pup for trying to get milk and she growled like this for the mother. My 3yr old female was dominant as a pup but never showed anything like this. She is not schitzo, shy, thin nerved, nor has any environmental problems. My only concern is that this pup is going to go into a home with small childeren and I dont want this behavior to escalate. A friend of mine has already spoken for this pup and if these are signs that she could be handler aggressive then I will just keep the pup myself. They are awesome pups, I could not ask for more, but I dont want a dog like this going into a home with small children and people that dont know how to handle something like this. Maybe Im over-cautious, but I have little experience whelping litters, so Im not sure what to expect.

ohhh, look who's back!!! mr. social aggression. pretty obvious that you did not heed the warnings about breeding "junk-yard" dogs. people like you piss me off in the worst possible way and give working dogs a horrible reputation as far as the general public goes.

Some verbalizing is normal at that age, the pups learn it works a little with their littermates and you'll get some growling around food and when pushed around.


But, from what you are describing, you have a dog who's temperament I'd be worried about.


Those are not the best signs in pups. Don't put them down or anything, but they should go to someone who can deal with fear aggression, rank beahviors, and anti-social dogs. . .not a family.

New to the whole thing and not a breeder but just had one thought (somebody else disagree if I'm wrong) Have you ruled out anything physical (i.e. the pup is particularly sensitive to touch / pain) The mother corrects her for trying to nurse, you might be playing a bit rough, pups are often rough when playing together... just wondering if maybe the little girl is just sensitive to touch or has some condition that causes pain when touched in a certain spot or something... maybe your vet could take a look... It is sad to think of giving up on a pup so early... Though of course you would not want to have her in a home with children. But maybe you can tell that early, I don't know, just seems a bit young to me to really be able to see what the final disposition of the dog will be. Well, that's my only though I guess because I don't know anything about breeding, temperament testing, and haven't seen the pup in question anyway. Good luck. Jennie

Robert, can you explain further why you think the pup shouldn't be put down? If breeding for a sound dog in both body and mind, shouldn't one take the necessary (and responsible) step and humanely put down any pup that doesn't meet the laid out criteria? There are dozens of dogs with good, stable temperments, why is it necessary to keep the "iffy" ones? Just playing devil's advocate here, I honestly want to know the pro's and cons.

Patricia:
First off I would like to say that you are the fly at the dinner table that will not go away. I will totally disregard ANYTHING that you have to say. And I also refuse to carry out any conversation with you EVER.

Sire of Litter

This is the Sire of the litter, who is far from your "junk yard" dog. And IMO the dam was bred even better.

Vancamp:
I understand what you are saying, but maybe I did not describe the situation clearly enough. I am not worried about temperment problems with these dogs. Nor environmental ect. These are very sound pups. And now that I sat on it for a while and thought about it. I have been thinking that the pup just gets too excited and wound up. Because I think this only happens after I let them out of their pen. So they are just wound up. This has not happened in awhile. It really was not even that serious of an incident, but just rose some questions. The only thing I was worried about was the fact that this dog might be too much for the family she was going to.

Everyone else:
Thanks for the replies and opinions. Keep them comin. Thanks for not posting rude posts, because my intention is only the best for these pups and I like to hear other opinions.

I thought I did explain why not to put the pup down. . .it is normal behavior to an extent. Might not be an issue at all. It is something I'd be worried about as a temperament issue, but not a difinitive time to kill this dog type of issue. I've had 2 pups in litters that were growl-a-holics for weeks, but they ended up being nice dogs. . .for experienced working owners.


But I sure as shat wouldn't give that pup to a new to working dog family.

Howard, don't take this as an attack but your posts always seem to contradict themselves. First your saying the pup is growling "violently" at you, then it's suddenly "oh, their just wound up". I'm with VC on this one. My youngest dog was definately a growler as a young pup, but has more or less grown out of it at 1 year of age this month, and has turned out to be a damn nice dog even if I'm a little biased. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> At any rate, I wouldn't worry so much about it. Perhaps VC is right though, about giving careful consideration of who winds up with this particular pup. JMO

Howard, now I'm confused, wasn't there a long thread a few months ago, led by you, about the benefits and desires to have a socially aggressive protection dog?

The female is clearly the dominant one. She picks on the male and gets very aggressive with him, which I know is normal in a working litter. And isn't that exactly the desired temperment you wanted to breed into your litter?

Sounds to me like you are doing exactly what you wanted to do with your protection dog training program. At least with the female pup. Have a socially agressive dog.

You know, I am pretty new to this whole thing but I just have to say that I think the post attacking this breeder and accusing him of breeding junkyard dogs is unjustified. I looked at the link for the sire and I am the first to admit that I know nothing about pedigrees, I've asked for help from those that do (not about this dog) but I just have to say that it is obvious that these pups are from a working line and obviously have some decent ancestors because they all have working titles. Their ancestors are doing what the breed was meant to do and so why should he be ridiculed so harshly just for asking for a little help with something that concerned him? Look at the ads in your local newspaper, pups with no titles of any kind for a couple hundred dollars or less, from a breeder who couldn't tell you anything much about the pups' ancestors, much less produce a pedigree. And would he even take the time to be a member of this board if he was just breeding junkyard dogs? I doubt it. I mean really, can't we even support someone who is trying to be a careful and responsible breeder? Kind of disgusted. Jennie