Nathan Barkley wrote 01/30/2014 09:14 AM Question about the timing of training. #388367 - 01/30/2014 09:14 AM
Nathan Barkley Webboard User Reg: 01-27-2014 Posts: 4 Loc: Offline	Hello, I want you to know that I did some searching around before I asked this, and perhaps there were soooooo many results that I just missed it. We are going to be getting a Giant Schnauzer in may. I have worked with other people's dogs in marker training in the past and am working my way through all of the micheal ellis stuff hopefully before we get our dog. My question is when to start all of the obedience etc. I understand about charging the marker and that its OK to do basic stuff at the beginning but I just wondered about some of the later stuff. I don't want to move too quickly for my dog at all, I've seen some trainers totally stress their dogs out with that in the past and don't want to make that mistake! My question is, am I looking for an age to move on in material, a disposition or do I just move at the pace at which he "gets" it? Thanks!
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Duane Hull wrote 01/30/2014 10:21 AM Re: Question about the timing of training. [Re: Nathan Barkley ] #388368 - 01/30/2014 10:21 AM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	IMHO, the dog determines much of the timing. A dog that picks up quickly will be ready for new things constantly. However, you don't want to think that because he "gets it", you can bombard him with new stuff. You want to proof the key behaviors before moving to a new key behavior. Also, some obedience training is perpetual. Although he may "get" the sit right off, you still need to proof it, and add duration and distance. If I were starting a pup, I'd start with a "sit" and luring in heel position. As the sit becomes more solid, start adding duration, and then distance. As he demonstrates that he is becoming more solid in the "sit", add a "look", or a "down" and repeat the process, while continuing to improve the "sit". You will soon develop a feel for his aptitude. There is no set timeline for a dog's development. They are all different. You CAN set a goal, such as, learning all of the BH behaviors by the time he is 15 months (which is the minimum age for the BH). All JMO. Sadie
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Nathan Barkley wrote 01/30/2014 10:46 AM Re: Question about the timing of training. [Re: Nathan Barkley ] #388369 - 01/30/2014 10:46 AM
Nathan Barkley Webboard User Reg: 01-27-2014 Posts: 4 Loc: Offline	Hey, thanks for the reply! I really do want to have that balance between working on something for a more solid/polished response and introducing new material, this was really helpful. I especially wanted to have a better idea about where to start with the focused heel which is perhaps my biggest goal for a dog. I live in a small town in Iowa and have access to large amounts of land (corn/bean fields) that are bare for a good bit of the year so I need that reliable recall/focused heel work to be rock solid!
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/30/2014 10:55 AM Re: Question about the timing of training. [Re: Nathan Barkley ] #388370 - 01/30/2014 10:55 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	To me, Nathan, a focused heel is not my everyday casual heel. "I especially wanted to have a better idea about where to start with the focused heel which is perhaps my biggest goal for a dog. I live in a small town in Iowa and have access to large amounts of land (corn/bean fields) that are bare for a good bit of the year so I need that reliable recall/focused heel work to be rock solid!" For me, in that context, I'm wanting a casual heel with a different command from a competition heel (and yes, a rock-solid recall!). Are we maybe using different terms? The picture on the front of this video is a focused heel: http://leerburg.com/223.htm Are you planning on any kind of competition, BTW?
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Nathan Barkley wrote 01/30/2014 10:57 AM Re: Question about the timing of training. [Re: Nathan Barkley ] #388371 - 01/30/2014 10:57 AM
Nathan Barkley Webboard User Reg: 01-27-2014 Posts: 4 Loc: Offline	Connie, Yeah, we probably are using different terms, forgive me :P A good "focused heel" would be fun and challenging to do eventually, I may not compete with my dog, but the challenge of learning something difficult together definitely excites me! My wife and I have watched Ed's video on Pack structure and we will also watch the 8 weeks-8 months video as well as the basic dog obedience, anything else that you would really stress for us to study up on before our new "pack member" comes home?
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Duane Hull wrote 01/30/2014 11:10 AM Re: Question about the timing of training. [Re: Nathan Barkley ] #388372 - 01/30/2014 11:10 AM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	Absolutely agree with Connie. In this video, ME demonstrates a drill that he uses when starting a pup in marker training and OB... http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=717 IMHO, this is a good starting point for OB, beginning with the sit and with heel position. Remember, along with the training you do, you will also be working on engagement, distractions, and socializing. There's quite a bit to balance, so start slow and get comfortable with the whole process. Again, JMO. ETA: IF you plan to do competition, it's easier to go from a focused heel to a casual heel than to create focus in a dog that heels casually. Think about your end goal before you start something that's hard to untrain. Edited by Duane Hull (01/30/2014 11:10 AM) Edit reason: eta Sadie
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/30/2014 11:13 AM Re: Question about the timing of training. [Re: Nathan Barkley ] #388373 - 01/30/2014 11:13 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	"There's quite a bit to balance, so start slow and get comfortable with the whole process." Yup! Also, will this be a puppy? You asked about what else to watch (study, IMO!), and I reply this: http://leerburg.com/training-with-food.htm Now, below there, you'll see a terrific set, but it sounded in your O.P. like maybe you do not need the first one in the set (a very good intro to markers). But Power of Food, IMO, is a the best beginning DVD for someone with a little knowledge of marker training but the desire to have a very solid foundation.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/30/2014 11:17 AM Re: Question about the timing of training. [Re: Nathan Barkley ] #388374 - 01/30/2014 11:17 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	If this is a puppy, then this would be the pack structure DVD: http://leerburg.com/puppy-pack-structure.htm (Puppy and adult pack structure are different.) I think the $17.50 deal is great.
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Nathan Barkley wrote 01/30/2014 11:16 AM Re: Question about the timing of training. [Re: Nathan Barkley ] #388375 - 01/30/2014 11:16 AM
Nathan Barkley Webboard User Reg: 01-27-2014 Posts: 4 Loc: Offline	Yes, he will be a puppy around 8wk old. Thanks for all the great advice and direction for some new training aids, i'll watch those a couple times and then I'll probably have a bunch of new questions :P
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/30/2014 11:18 AM Re: Question about the timing of training. [Re: Nathan Barkley ] #388376 - 01/30/2014 11:18 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Nathan Barkley Yes, he will be a puppy around 8wk old. Thanks for all the great advice and direction for some new training aids, i'll watch those a couple times and then I'll probably have a bunch of new questions :P That's what we LOVE!
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