Rob Maltese wrote 04/14/2014 08:44 PM Rewarding w/ Tug #390219 - 04/14/2014 08:44 PM
Rob Maltese Webboard User Reg: 03-21-2014 Posts: 123 Loc: Connecticut Offline	My dog Axle is very toy driven, loves to tug and loves to run around with a toy/ball in his mouth. The issue with the ball is he would rather tug then drop and retrieve. I want to buy Michael Ellis's "The Power of Playing Tug with your Dog (Full Version)" however in the description it states : "For the tug to be used as an obedience reward with your dog, you must have 3 things. The dog must tug with enthusiasm, The dog must out when told to out, The dog must bring the tug back after you release it." Axle will tug with enthusiasm for sure, however it's the last two things that I am concerned about. Is this something that is trained or spoken about in this video, or is it something I need to train PRIOR to watching this video?
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Bob Scott wrote 04/14/2014 11:27 PM Re: Rewarding w/ Tug [Re: Rob Maltese ] #390222 - 04/14/2014 11:27 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	The out needs to be trained. The retrieve "probably" has to be trained unless the dog is a natural retriever. The out is trained with markers and the reward for the out is...another bite on the tug. The out and retrieve is back chained. Back chaining all this is sooooo much clearer to the dog then the "toss and hope" method of retrieve. I haven't viewed it in a while but I thought the out on the tug was explained in the video. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Rob Maltese wrote 04/15/2014 08:24 AM Re: Rewarding w/ Tug [Re: Rob Maltese ] #390227 - 04/15/2014 08:24 AM
Rob Maltese Webboard User Reg: 03-21-2014 Posts: 123 Loc: Connecticut Offline	I feel as if Axle knows the "out" or "drop it" command as we've taught it he just isn't solid on it. With a tug it takes a bit more correction. I think I will buy the video, work more on the out and continue to review the video.
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Duane Hull wrote 04/15/2014 10:24 AM Re: Rewarding w/ Tug [Re: Rob Maltese ] #390229 - 04/15/2014 10:24 AM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	Rewarding the "out" with a bite is the best method I've seen/used for teaching the out. My dog hits harder on the reward bites than on the initial bites. Sadie
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ian bunbury wrote 04/15/2014 12:53 PM Re: Rewarding w/ Tug [Re: Rob Maltese ] #390237 - 04/15/2014 12:53 PM
ian bunbury Webboard User Reg: 01-19-2012 Posts: 685 Loc: whistler bc ca Offline	as duane has alluded to rob , the dog will come to be happy about the out , because he knows that it will prolong the game . this is in contrast to a dog that is stressed because ( a ) he is afraid he will not get the tug back , or ( b) , he is going to get corrected for not giving up something he has worked for . on the same note , the dog should be happy to retrieve the object knowing that there will be engagement with the handler as the tug game will start . how you get to those places will be fully explored in the DVD . . . buy it . dogs : the best part of being human
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Rob Maltese wrote 04/15/2014 02:54 PM Re: Rewarding w/ Tug [Re: ian bunbury ] #390241 - 04/15/2014 02:54 PM
Rob Maltese Webboard User Reg: 03-21-2014 Posts: 123 Loc: Connecticut Offline	Quote: ian bunbury as duane has alluded to rob , the dog will come to be happy about the out , because he knows that it will prolong the game . this is in contrast to a dog that is stressed because ( a ) he is afraid he will not get the tug back , or ( b) , he is going to get corrected for not giving up something he has worked for . on the same note , the dog should be happy to retrieve the object knowing that there will be engagement with the handler as the tug game will start . how you get to those places will be fully explored in the DVD . . . buy it . Thanks Ian.
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David Winners wrote 04/15/2014 09:41 PM Re: Rewarding w/ Tug [Re: Rob Maltese ] #390247 - 04/15/2014 09:41 PM
David Winners Webboard User Reg: 07-03-2009 Posts: 705 Loc: Bryan, Ohio Offline	Quote: Rob Maltese "For the tug to be used as an obedience reward with your dog, you must have 3 things. The dog must tug with enthusiasm, The dog must out when told to out, The dog must bring the tug back after you release it." Axle will tug with enthusiasm for sure, however it's the last two things that I am concerned about. Is this something that is trained or spoken about in this video, or is it something I need to train PRIOR to watching this video? All these things are part of the video. Your dog should know basic marker training before starting, but no prior tug work is required at all.
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Bob Scott wrote 04/15/2014 11:30 PM Re: Rewarding w/ Tug [Re: Rob Maltese ] #390252 - 04/15/2014 11:30 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	Quote: Rob Maltese I feel as if Axle knows the "out" or "drop it" command as we've taught it he just isn't solid on it. With a tug it takes a bit more correction. I think I will buy the video, work more on the out and continue to review the video. With markers done properly the corrections can be all but eliminated! As David commented above, the marker training video is critical to understanding all the others. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Rob Maltese wrote 04/17/2014 02:43 PM Re: Rewarding w/ Tug [Re: Rob Maltese ] #390275 - 04/17/2014 02:43 PM
Rob Maltese Webboard User Reg: 03-21-2014 Posts: 123 Loc: Connecticut Offline	As for marker I assume you mean clicker, Axle has done some clicker training when we attended a puppy class last year. Is this something he would still retain?
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Duane Hull wrote 04/17/2014 03:00 PM Re: Rewarding w/ Tug [Re: Rob Maltese ] #390276 - 04/17/2014 03:00 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	Clicker training IS marker training, but not all marker training is clicker training. I, and many others here, use verbal markers. IMHO, I can communicate better with my dog with a full marker vocabulary than I can with a clicker. Speaking only for myself. The dog will retain it forever, AS LONG AS ITS REINFORCED. All training should be ongoing for life. I wish you could teach a dog something once and have it be reliable indefinitely, but that's just not the way it works. I have a well-trained 5 yo GSD, and we review even the most basic stuff frequently. I find that rewarding the dog for tasks that she knows well feeds into her enthusiasm for training in general. Sadie
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