I took the time to start reading some articles that Ed Frawley has produced and I had some questions which I've listed below. Thanks for the feedback!

When a dog refuses a known command from his owner this is a clear indication that there is confusion in the relationship between the handler and his or her dog. This is often a sign that the dog does not respect his handler.

Does correcting the dog given the manner below effect the respect for the handler, positively or negatively?

The way I approach escalating corrections is to be very clear in my training.

When a dog first refuses a command I simply give a voice correction (NO!) along with a delayed leash or collar correction that is appropriate for the dog's temperament.

If the dog still does not comply, I repeat the command and give the dog an opportunity to again comply. If it continues to ignore the second command the level of the second correction is much much higher. In other words, if the first correction was a level 4 the second correction is going to be a level 8 or 9 correction.

Using the eCollar ET-400TS it has a STEM button, then a BOOST button which jumps it up +20 to whatever the setting is. If the first correction I give is a level 5/100 and he fails to comply do I turn the dial up or immediately boost it +20 to give the level 8 or 9 correction?

I make it very clear that the dog MUST comply.

I don’t escalate from level 4 to level 5 and then level 6 to level 7 until I get to a level that the dog submits and complies. I jump right from level 4 to level 8 with the second correction.

Does correction in this manner have any effect positively or negatively for the handler?

Rob,, can you remind us ... how old is your dog, are you mainly working on ob and possibly nose work, are you marker training, what are you seeing as your most immediate challenges with the dog, causing you to be pondering increasing corrections, etc.

It's hard to answer such blanket questions ... but I can start with one thing. Corrections, IMO, are for after the command is trained very well indeed, no confusion at all, and then proofed six ways from Sunday,, including for venue, distance, and distraction.

I'm not sure you're actually factoring this into what you're asking. Maybe you are, but it's so important that it would be great for all to be on the same page.


That is, corrections, for me, are not part of the initial training.

That is: There can't be a "correction" for the dog not complying with a command he does not yet thoroughly know (including proofing).

(Just as an aside, the particular article quoted is talking about using the e-collar as an aversive ... a correction.)

Just to be even clearer (I hope):

When Ed says "When a dog refuses a known command from his owner" ... a "known" command is a command that the dog thoroughly understands, including proofing.

Axle is a going to be 1 year old in 5 days (5/6/14) and is a American Staffordshire Terrier. We sent him away to professional obedience school for 4 weeks where he learned obedience commands on and off leash, when he came back he was great listened to everything. We failed to up keep the training (our fault) and now we're going through and redoing it all if I worded that correctly.

Right now it is obedience only, as for marker training - I am not doing any marker training now because I was under the impression he was good and we didn't need the marker because he was proofed with the professional trainer. During Axle's training he learned the following commands on/off leash :

Sit
Down
Heel
Recall
Place
Kennel
Off (no jumping)

I firmly believe he knows the command just chooses to disobey. I also believe we have a unstable pack structure which I will be looking to correct. Axle is our first dog, I can honestly admit that we made some early pack structure mistakes by allowing him too much freedom by simply not knowing any better so we are now working to correct those issues.

My basic theory is to always give the dog the benefit of the doubt.

If the dog really understands the command, and has been given incentive to comply, they will. I don't really believe much in "he knows the command but chooses not to comply."

Training, IMO, is very situational. He might have known and proofed commands when he was sent off for training. But that doesn't mean he makes the leap to understanding those commands from you in a different setting. That, along with your admitted pack structure issues makes me think you should ease up on the escalating corrections and return to "training is fun!" With this dog. Set him up to succeed, rather than test him for failure.

All JMO.

"We failed to up keep the training (our fault) and now we're going through and redoing it all if I worded that correctly. ... Right now it is obedience only, as for marker training - I am not doing any marker training now because I was under the impression he was good and we didn't need the marker because he was proofed with the professional trainer."

I'm not totally clear .... you are redoing it all, but not using marker training? Then how are you training? I ask because all I've really seen mentioned are corrections ... which aren't training.



"I firmly believe he knows the command just chooses to disobey. I also believe we have a unstable pack structure which I will be looking to correct. Axle is our first dog, I can honestly admit that we made some early pack structure mistakes by allowing him too much freedom by simply not knowing any better so we are now working to correct those issues."

I pretty much don't believe/agree that he knows the commands but chooses to disobey. This is just about never true when an owner calls me and says that (and most of them do say this, in one way or another ).

But even if I thought this was possibly true, I couldn't agree more with Tracy that you will never know that until you back up with each ob command.

In addition, working together on marker training is a very good pack structure reinforcement.

I'm not saying that his other training was wasted .... you're going to find that he will be very quick to learn now.

But you didn't train him; he has no particular trainer-student relationship with you, and no "partnership" has been built.


Escalating corrections just is not the route I would go with this first dog, trained away from you, training not kept up, etc.

JMO, of course!

How much have you worked on and proofed the commands in your home environment? I wouldn't necessarily assume that he thoroughly knows those commands. Dogs don't generalize well and he learned them in a different environment under a different trainer.

 Quote: Mara Jessup

... I wouldn't necessarily assume that he thoroughly knows those commands. Dogs don't generalize well and he learned them in a different environment under a different trainer.

Very true.



P.S
Even my dogs, trained by me, have "refresher" training.

"Axle is our first dog, I can honestly admit that we made some early pack structure mistakes by allowing him too much freedom by simply not knowing any better so we are now working to correct those issues."

Rob, can you tell us about the pack structure issues? Examples?

Rob;

I'm seeing something in your posts that I see often. Many people think that a dog gets trained to a certain point, and then the dog is "trained".

IMO, training is ongoing for life. Even when I have my dogs "fully obedience trained", I continue reinforcing the commands and adding new challenges and commands. One of the beautiful things about marker training is that, esp if the dog has strong food drive, the dog's appetite for training never wanes. Often, they look forward to it. Once you have a verbal communication system with your dog, you will find yourself wanting to expand it further.

Even top-level competition and performing/entertaining dogs practice and train for the entirety of their careers.