Should I allow my 7 month old GSD to keep his kill? A rabbit or bird, or is it wise to take it from him? If so, why?

No, no, a thousand times no.


Here's some "why" discussion:

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=34025&page=2

and

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=34025&page=1

If you ignore the O.P. (whose story, links, and pictures changed as he went along) and delete the deer references, you will still see solid reasons for NOT letting your dog run wildlife.

Good for you for asking!

Hi Connie, thank you for the links..I also agree that ALL wildlife desirves respect. I didn't explain the situation. I don't promote Eliot chasing animals. He lives with Ben, our Amazon parrot and God knows I love her too. I had 6200 sq ft area fenced in for him, all gates locked and 6' high. But, rabbits squrrals and birds still get in.I began tug work per your mike Ellis video and work with him a lot. But eventually he's going to catch one while he's out and I'm not. I don't know if I should take it from him if he does or not. I surly can't correct him for his instincts...unless I'm there at that moment. What should I do in this situation???

Actually, my English Shepherd killed a bunny today in my tractor shed. He's been stalking this particular bunny for awhile, it has always escaped under machinery, but today he caught it.

I was unable to call him away from the bunny, which he ate entirely. I was also unable to get close enough to him to take it away.

We still have plenty of work to do!

A dog that makes an actual kill on critters can be a real PIA to stop. The chase in itself is also self rewarding to most dogs. The actual catch will be the jackpot of a lifetime.

"IF" that kill is made before the dog has a GREAT recall it will create even more problems.

Betty, in your instance it would probably have been better if you just let it go if you thought you wouldn't get a recall from the dog. Each time you call and the dog refuses it then learns it CAN refuse.
Of course it's hard to think about that in the heat of the moment.
Watch out for tapeworm obviously.

I did "let it go". It was evident that his poor bunny was high value, he'd been stalking it for a few weeks, he had absolutely no intention of giving it up.

We no longer have possums, coons, woodchucks around outbuildings.

We used to have badgers which created giant holes in the pastures which were dangerous for
livestock and for equipment. We don't even have many gopher mounds. He dug up all the moles in the lawn. THAT was good!

When we bought this english shepherd we were told "farm patrol" and removal of extraneous critters was one of their strong points.

I'm grateful for some of this hunting and patrolling but hope with time to control it.

IMO, living on a farm, dogs kill vermin sometimes. I don't want them out stalking and killing as young dogs - I want to train and control the environment so that doesn't become their focus as it is highly self rewarding. But my mature dogs have grabbed a woodchuck or rabbit from time to time (Kipp killed a skunk once - without getting sprayed but he still smelled horrid) and it doesn't bother me. They grab and kill in an instant so they aren't harassing ahead of time. And then they go on their way. I don't encourage it but if it happens it happens. I don't want them eating what they kill because, well, when they get that skunk I want to get them away from it pronto!

 Quote: Robert overbeek

I had 6200 sq ft area fenced in for him, all gates locked and 6' high. But, rabbits squrrals and birds still get in.I began tug work per your mike Ellis video and work with him a lot. But eventually he's going to catch one while he's out and I'm not.

So, just to make sure I understand, your dog has not killed any prey in your yard, but you are afraid it may happen eventually? If that is what the situation is, then now is the time to work diligently on the advice already given on training recalls and building that all-important bond with your dog. Between your training and management of his outdoor time, your goal should be to prevent any incidents of killing prey animals from ever happening.

I have a fenced yard for my two dogs that is around 9,000 square feet. It is accessed directly from my back door. However, before I let my dogs out, I always check the yard quickly for any hazards, in general. I look to make sure the gates are closed, and I do a quick scan for critters. Once my dogs are outside, they are never left unattended. My husband or myself are either out there with them or keeping an eye out a window. The yard is not a place for the dogs to entertain themselves. It is for supervised exercise, play, training, and of course for going potty.

I live in the country and we have plenty of wildlife around here, too. My dogs' yard actually has a bird feeder in it that is frequented by birds and squirrels (and the occasional raccoon or opossum at night). We have rabbits that roam our property, though it is rare to see them inside the dog enclosure. We have deer that can occasionally be seen outside the area of the dogs' yard.

What kind of fencing do you have? If critters can get in, they should be able to easily get out, too. Prey animals are very quick and if given any warning at all that a dog is in the area, they are going to be long gone. I suggest working on not even giving your dog the opportunity to stalk unsuspecting animals in your yard.

eta: Betty and Mara posted while I was typing. I do realize there are different expectations of some types of working dogs, be it farming, herding, hunting, and so on.

Edited by Cheri Grissom (06/21/2014 07:42 AM)
Edit reason: eta

My biggest concern is..will it hurt Eliot if he eats it? Disease ? Or will it affect his future behavior, which was explained earlier.

We don't have any problem letting our dogs eat what they kill. Where issues can come in is in distinguishing what, when and where they have the freedom to do their hunting.

When we're hiking along, a full throttle take off or bolt into the bush is a big No, No. Chasing prey animals could get them dead real quick around here and something they learn early. As important as the number one command, the recall itself.

But we do have open areas where the ground goodies are plentiful. We may take a break and let them hunt for a while or as we walking along. We also have 70 acres where, along with the eagles, hawks, osprey and coyotes, they get to hunt for mice.

When they kill something though (once it's dead) we always check it out before they eat it. Just to see what it is and make sure it's not full of sores or looks weird or something.

And (big, big) for us, they don't kill just to kill. They MUST eat (if we haven't taken it away) whatever they kill. We're hunters as well and live by this rule.

It was interesting, a while back, we were walking along in a fairly rodent ravenous area and Echo (who's an excellent hunter) spotted his first rabbit, pounced on it and got it. He didn't look particularly interested in eating it but we all sat there, for a good half hour, until the last of it was down his hatch.

He knew he had to eat it cause he had gotten a baby grouse the previous week. We were kind of upset about that one but it was in their area. For some reason he didn't want to eat it (it was a spruce grouse, maybe it had that piney taste). We looked it over, it was just a baby and nothing wrong with it. His refusal to eat it got it notched to his collar for the rest of the walk and in his dinner bowl when we got home.

So yeah, he's got my vote to keep it. As long as it was taken in an appropriate area and wasn't after a direct command to stop a prey run.

We enjoy our finger food and allow them their paw'ppetizers.

And completely agree with Bob on this:

 Quote: Bob Scott

A dog that makes an actual kill on critters can be a real PIA to stop. The chase in itself is also self rewarding to most dogs. The actual catch will be the jackpot of a lifetime.

"IF" that kill is made before the dog has a GREAT recall it will create even more problems.

This last part is where the big troubles can come in. There's a huge amount of training involved in these things. As with all things "off leash", even in your yard, you want to strive for that understanding, respectful, full control at all time.

Oh and the title of your post caught my attention right away: Dog killing "his" prey. My dogs understand that once it's dead it becomes "mine" instantly. Just a little mind set shift but it's big in our world.