The ongoing saga of Sam. He's been here since last April, and his transformation from nasty to pet is about ninety percent. Still some issues but he's fitting in better and better.

In the hindsight of speculation, one might consider it possible that he was abused in his first two years of life in some measure.

It has been an interesting time. He wanted to be dominant, which led to the ugly confrontations with the other GSDs. That phase passed, thankfully. He probably would have done better in a single dog environment but it was either here or the needle at the time.

He had quite a dust up with Titan last fall that seemed to end the dominance tendencies. Titan was quite patient with him for months but finally the issue was resolved, and Titan settled Sam's hash in seconds. Normally I wouldn't like such an exchange but it was over before I could get to them, and the result has been a changed dog. Not a pansy, just more respectful of boundaries.

Of course, Sam had one nose to nose with my female Brio, and that was all it took for him to understand that she was the wrong dog to try to muscle.

I know this little report flies in the face of good dog training but it is what it is. There is now peace in the kingdom as much the result of my 'training' efforts as from the dogs sorting themselves out. It has taken almost a year but the pack is now pretty much a balanced group. Not to say personalities don't get exercised now and again but no dominant dog, just yours truly at the top of the heap, along with my bride and daughter.

There. A second post in 24 hours

 Quote: Mike Arnold

I know this little report flies in the face of good dog training but it is what it is. There is now peace in the kingdom as much the result of my 'training' efforts as from the dogs sorting themselves out.

Thank you for this Mike. I brought a 7 week puppy home 4 weeks ago and have been obsessing over my inability to socialize him to all he should be seeing. I'm 10 miles outside Boston and we have been pretty much isolated by blizzard after blizzard. All environments are snow environments(pretty barren) with lack of human or canines anywhere to be found in the 10 feet of snow and sub zero temperatures. However, after listening to the sounds of traffic for 3 weeks, enough snow has been removed that he can finally see what was making all that noise. He was very observant but took it in stride. So its FAR from perfect but its the outcome that matters so I think we are off to a decent start.
Congratulations on your success; your training is the biggest part of the equation otherwise you would have ended up at the vets following the skirmishes.

Ms. Buckley,

My vet is on speed dial. Two different trips inn the past eight months. Both for staples. First Titan, then Sam. None of the four GSDs are particularly inclined to be subordinate.

Now the two males sleep proximate to each other by choice. In fact, all four of them will flop down around each other. No fuss, no muss, at least for today, so far.

All four of them are rescues. Three with papers, my good luck. I guess. But the paperless one got so under my skin I couldn't let her go. Little Kai.

I often wonder about people with multiple dogs who don't acknowledge the occasional issue between dogs. Hasn't been my experience over the years but I make no claim of being a good trainer, just an earnest one.

Hard to type with Sam wanting his head scratched. He is nothing if not persistent.

Just an unsolicited thought but I wouldn't be in a hurry to socialize my puppy. In my world, the initial socialization has to do with me and the family, and in moderation the older dogs. Puppies are cute and cuddly and invite all kinds of unwanted and unsolicited interest and distractions. Then too, I am a Luddite.

I think age difference helps, my first dog was mature before I got the second, the second was mature before I got the pups.

the pups made a few half ass challenges, but a muzzle punch, no actual bite sorted that out.

I think nature programs a level of seniority into an already established pack. a bunch of same age dogs coming together as adults I suspect would be a real problem.

I also believe dogs moving and doing real work as a pack establishes leadership peacefully.

I concur. For me, working dogs together seems to accelerate training for all of the dogs a little. It seems to me that they actually learn from watching the development of another dog. And while observing, they are holding until released, which is a good tool for me.

might sound a bit old school but I figure whatever motivation dogs have to bicker and fight I give them a bigger motivation not to.

I have zero tolerance for inter-pack aggression. in fact dog aggression of any stripe is major offense in my household.

having said that my males are separated when I am not present.

Mike and Peter,
My Dad is from Ireland and grew up on a farm. He said as their herding dogs would age, they would introduce the replacement pup to the work by taking it out and observing the trained dog. He said by the time the older dog was ready to retire the young dog was ready to take over. At this point the two dogs had been working together as a team for 1 to 2 years and the bulk of the teaching came from the other dog. I'd say it backs up what you both have observed.

I have seen the least dog aggressive sheep dogs all attack a young dog for being in the wrong position on a herd.

same thing works for bite-work, put a pup or a whole litter for that matter behind a fence, individually on a tie on the side of the field or in a crate/s while watching the big dogs do their thing will get them up more than any table or disco dancing, whip cracking decoy ever could.

The down side IMHO to working more then one "working" dog as in fence work is the chance of upping the game of a dog aggressive dog.

It could be way to easy to focus on another dog instead of the person working the dogs.

From my perspective with terriers (earth dogs) you immediately tie out the other dogs when one goes to ground.

Two dogs in the same earth can go really bad for the first dog in.

sounds reasonable, OTOH I have seen DA bulldogs that hate each other's guts and hate every other living thing on the planet literally become one dog with many heads (and legs) on a critter.

I think dogs are capable of compartmentalising...or not.