My apologies for this overdone topic.
But I am just curious. How long did it take all of you to teach your dog to sustain focus for 20 paces of straight heeling?
I realize I tried to progress too fast doing turns about turns etc. because my girl has such an awesome static focus.
So.....now back to square one. I have realized we need to forget about all of that until I can be sure of her sustained focus while heeling.
I watched my video of ME and it brought my mistakes to the surface.
Also, she is super responsive to the prong collar, but I have been training with just the fur saver and only using the prong now and then. Should I leave it on her all the time?

can't comment on the prong carol because i don't use one , but for the heeling . . .

i'd have to consult my notes to be completely accurate , but i started at least two months ago . minimum one session ( or part of a session ) per day , probably more like two . and with each session of straight line work there has been an equal amount of work on the pivot bucket for turns , which we have been doing for maybe a week . . . left only , rights just started a couple of day ago .

i'm sure this could have been sped up quite a bit , but because i have so much work to consume , process , and get a bit of a grip on , i can only dedicate a limited amount of time to the focused heel .

i'm pretty happy with what we have accomplished , and i feel like when i leave here ( on sunday ) we'll have enough foundation to go forward with some confidence . my challenge is going to be finding someone at home who can spot for me ( or a big mirror ) because that is kind of where we are at now .

It very much depends on the dog and the handler's skills in the marking and rewarding.

Timing, duration, distraction and distance all play a huge part it training any behaviors.

Are you using markers for her training and then using corrections as she progresses?

If so it sounds like your possibly moving to fast.
A marker trained dog should WANT to stay in position to earn a reward.

If it's breaking position/attention the the dog isn't quite understanding what's expected based on said timing, duration, distance and distance.

Withholding marking and rewarding for to many steps?

That first step is still just as worthy of reward as is the 20th, the 4th, the 24th or the 50th. RANDOM mark and reward.

No matter how well trained any dog is it still has to know that a reward cam come at any time in the behavior.

Also another possibility is to many or to much distractions before the dog is ready.


Also you may want to do a lot of heeling without the dog.

Get really confident with your own footwork so your not having to worry about what your doing as well as what the dog is doing.

Actually, I am not correcting at all. I just realized she is looking at me on the turns and somewhere in the middle she is not looking up at me.
I do use markers. My biggest mistake, was that for a while, I was spitting treats instead of marking. So she gives me eye contact if I am looking at her. Obviously, this is incorrect. I need to look straight ahead.
I went back to the beginning of luring with head up and random rewarding.
But I need to fade the lure now. I did train her to look at me while I hold my left hand outside her head and swing my arm. She looks away after too many steps and I need to mark before she does don't I?
It just seems she is not keeping her focus too long. So I thought I would work toward 20 steps, in trying to keep that focus for more and more steps.
I guess I should mark right away instead of waiting. She is super food motivated. I think my reward may be to long in between?


Edited by Carol Blumlein (10/29/2015 12:07 AM)
Edit reason: addition

Bob, these are great advices, I have to follow them too and try to be aware better of what I'm doing. I've got the Heler's selfstudy for beginners, from Forrest, just to know what is all about. actually I prefer interactive courses. I enrolled in one which should have begun in the beginning of January, but it was cancelled, because they don't get enough students.

I am now unsure, whether it would be reasonable to enroll in 2016 in the intermediate one, if I first prepare my dogs well following the selfstudy for beginners. The problem is that there I'm not corrected and it could easily happen that I will not get aware of some of my errors which might creep in.

Hooray!! This morning we tried it again. She does know what I want. It is up to me to be more attentive to what I am doing and random marking. I think I was trying to rush through things. We had lots of praise and play. Nice productive short session AND she still performed well in spite of 2 dogs being walked nearby!!

I seem to have ADD, she has the focus...LOL!

Outstanding Carol!

Now gradually add distance, and distraction.

My wife always tells me that watching an ADD trainer, me, working Trooper, an ADD dog is worth getting out a lawn chair and a bag of pop corn.

For both Carol and Christina.

If possible have someone video you when your working the dog.

Seeing you own mistakes on video is a wonderful learning tool.

If your in an area with large shopping centers then watching yourself and the dog work while looking at your reflection in the window can also be a big help.

Bob, big shopping centers we don't have many here and to go to the ones we have with the dogs, they would have to be much better trained for supporting big distractions. (crowds of people, whole lot of strays, awful traffic). Something for a distant future.

But my husband could video me. Perfect idea. This could certainly help a lot. Should have had this idea myself, as when making a video for an interactive course, I also watch it and often discover mistakes myself, though not all of them. But it's really worth it.
Thanks so much once again!

Hey Bob we must've been on the same wave length!! I went to a shopping center this morning early AND I have set up a friend/ trainer to video me next week!!

I have done a lot of perch work with her. So when I tell her ready, she swings her butt into "fuss" position and looks right up. She has always had terrific focus that was evident as young as 8 weeks. Just wish the drive was better, still working on it.

I rarely use a prong because she doesn't seem to need it. She is very responsive to movement, voice and the fur saver is just there for safety at this point. Maybe that will change?? However, I use a prong on walks so I can correct stupid behavior around passing dogs (i.e. "leave it, pfuit etc.) but I praise or reward for compliance after. She is only 13 months so I social manners are not perfect!!

Christina, do you have any centers that you could go to before they open really early? OR, any covered parking lots with long walls OR any tennis or basketball courts with lines? I have used all of those.

Edited by Carol Blumlein (10/30/2015 02:02 PM)
Edit reason: addition

Thanks so much, Carol, for thinking about me. No, we don't have this. Here we live in a very neglected part of the country. Actually most parts of this country are neglected awfully, except metropolis. I get up at 3 o'clock, prepare everything and leave at 4 the latest. No shop open, nothing like this. So I have to find my own ways. Sometimes very difficult.

All spots seeming more or less safe, are occupied from a whole lot of strays (least problem) and of drunken or drugged people and so on. Means, I have always to be aware of all kind of impredictable situations. But on the other hand - can I go on living within my own four walls? Never! Even there we could be attacked. (Have been already)

At least I have my Pits as protection, frankly pure bluff, but they really keep some individuals away. And they have me as protection, because I've got quite sharp teeths too!

So everything is a question of preparation and caution. No other choice. This is Brazil.

Good luck to you!