Carol Blumlein wrote 01/28/2016 09:24 PM Finish problem #400315 - 01/28/2016 09:24 PM
Carol Blumlein Webboard User Reg: 03-29-2012 Posts: 421 Loc: Offline	I have trained my GSD female to do the flip finish. She is not quite straight at the end the first time so I give her a "nope" and make her do it again. When it is correct, I mark and reward. But she seems to always need a second chance to get it just right. Why can't I get her to do it perfectly the first time? TIA
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Bob Scott wrote 01/28/2016 10:41 PM Re: Finish problem [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #400316 - 01/28/2016 10:41 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	Does she have a good sit when you halt in heeling? If so, when she she gets to your side from the flip then take a step forward and halt. See if she straightens out. Eventually you can wean out that step forward. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Bob Scott wrote 01/28/2016 11:26 PM Re: Finish problem [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #400318 - 01/28/2016 11:26 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	I've not used this method yet but I found it in my LB "stuff". Flip finish by Forrest Micke Your basically going to back chain the flip finish. Start with the dog against a wall. fence, etc in heel position yet "slightly" in front of you. Give the finish command and the dog needs to back up just a bit to be in heel position. Mark and reward. You will gradually, as the dog improves and is consistent, work the dog out in front of you in the front position. The wall will keep the dog moving into a straight position. I like it!! old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Carol Blumlein wrote 01/29/2016 06:22 AM Re: Finish problem [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #400319 - 01/29/2016 06:22 AM
Carol Blumlein Webboard User Reg: 03-29-2012 Posts: 421 Loc: Offline	Yes she has a good sit. I will give that a try. Oh yes I too have that vid with Forest Micke!! Right I will see which one works better. Thank you! When I think about it, Forest Micke's back chaining strikes me as being the best in getting the dog to understand how to get into the correct position. It makes the dog figure out how to move his/her body. I can lure her to a perfect finish every time, but fading the lure has not proved successful consistently. Edited by Carol Blumlein (01/29/2016 06:22 AM) Edit reason: Addition
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Bob Scott wrote 01/29/2016 10:48 PM Re: Finish problem [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #400320 - 01/29/2016 10:48 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	I agree with it being a better method. Mine goes back quite a bit and does work but I'm liking what I see in Forest Micke . Fading a lure needs to be done and over asap or it becomes a bribe. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Carol Blumlein wrote 02/01/2016 02:04 PM Re: Finish problem [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #400324 - 02/01/2016 02:04 PM
Carol Blumlein Webboard User Reg: 03-29-2012 Posts: 421 Loc: Offline	You are so right about it becoming a bribe. Thank you for the reminder. I have fixed that Pronto! Thankfully, she is SO food motivated, just believing the food is on me is enough.
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Bob Scott wrote 02/01/2016 10:48 PM Re: Finish problem [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #400325 - 02/01/2016 10:48 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	I will often leave the reward, usually a Kong or tug, across the yard or even in my wood shop so they don't depend on me having it but they absolutely know that reward WILL come if I mark a behavior. At the other extreme it may be on the ground in plain sight while I heel them past or over it. That's just another proofing distraction. old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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Carol Blumlein wrote 02/02/2016 04:50 PM Re: Finish problem [Re: Bob Scott ] #400331 - 02/02/2016 04:50 PM
Carol Blumlein Webboard User Reg: 03-29-2012 Posts: 421 Loc: Offline	For the long down, I like to demand compliance while throwing the ball near her or flinging it far.
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Duane Hull wrote 02/02/2016 05:39 PM Re: Finish problem [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #400332 - 02/02/2016 05:39 PM
Duane Hull Webboard User Reg: 09-23-2011 Posts: 2692 Loc: Marrero, LA Offline	Carol, I had the same problem with Sadie. With her, it was poor focus due to anticipation. I approached it similar to you, but my timing was different. Rather than using my "negstive" marker to make her try it again from the beginning, I used it as a bridge to let her know she had to correct her position. After a few reps of bridging or just withholding a mark, she figured out that she would not get marked until her position was correct. Sadie
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Bob Scott wrote 02/02/2016 10:51 PM Re: Finish problem [Re: Carol Blumlein ] #400333 - 02/02/2016 10:51 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	I agree with Duane on using the bridge to continue a behavior. What do you mean by "I demand compliance"? If your using force it's possible that your adding distractions to fast Just a thought! old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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