Good Lord it feels like forever since I was here last. I see some familiar names, and some not familiar at all.

For those that do remember me, and Tucker, I sadly had to put him down in February due to Lung Cancer. Long story short....I promised myself that the next rescue I get was being fed a raw diet.

moving forward, I have my eye on a lovely girl (lab/American Bulldog cross) that was originally rescued from Texas and brought to a rescue here in Ontario.

The issue, she has liver shunts, so im not totally sure if she would be a good candidate for raw. Of course they have her on vet recommened Royal Canin HDL (blech) but from what im reading online a dog with liver shunts can and will thrive on a raw diet. I have purchased a couple books, which have not yet arrived so I thought I would throw a post on here to see if any members have any personal experience with feeding raw to a dog with liver issues?

I guess i just want to make sure that im going down the right path, I certainly don't want to cause this girl anymore health issues, but i also don't want to feed her kibble that is probably full of more toxins than I care to name.

I hope someone could steer me in the right direction????

Thanks!
ps.. i just noticed the Tucker picture in my signautre...I miss his furry face so much!!!

Hello Wendy,

Welcome back! I remember you and Tucker, and I'm very sorry to hear that he crossed the bridge. My condolences.

My introduction to raw was eleven years when ago I had a GSD X BC mix (great dog...sigh) diagnosed with hepatic lymphoma and advanced cirrhosis at the age of 6. 80% of his liver was non-functional, the vet didn't think there was enough liver still working to tolerate chemo for the lymphoma and when diagnosed the dog wasn't expected to survive a month. I switched him to raw in desperation - got a lot of excellent information and support from an online canine liver disease support group - chemo knocked the lymphoma into remission and the dog did really well for 14 months until the lymphoma came very aggressively out of remission. At that point I called it quits and we let him go. But the interesting thing was that the remaining 20% of his liver was functioning just fine with liver enzymes close to normal right up to the end. The pathologist was astonished.

So yes, you can feed raw to a dog with chronic liver issues, and if IME you do it right the dog will do much better than on a special diet kibble. Do you know anything about the location and severity of the shunt(s) in this rescue dog? How were they diagnosed? Has she had elevated liver enzymes in a blood test? Any signs of hepatic encephalopathy (transient attacks of strange vocalizations, circling, pacing, bumping into solid objects)?

The commercial low-protein "liver" diets just set the dog up for chronic malnutrition, IMO. You want to feed calibrated amounts of high quality protein, support liver function with supplements and appropriate medication if necessary, and arrange periodic monitoring of liver enzymes with a knowledgable vet (which unfortunately isn't of all them - many general practice vets know nothing about managing canine liver issues beyond the standard prescription of low-protein kibble).

I have a ton of information in my files that I could dig out. PM me if you are interested.

Sarah

Hi Wendy. Yours is one of the names I remember from the first few years I was a member here. It's nice to see you here again. I hope we see more of you.

I'm sorry I'm no help with your question about the liver issues, but I do want to say I'm sorry for your loss of Tucker. Beautiful sig pic of him, beautiful dog.

Hi Sarah..thank you so much for the kind words about Tucker. It was a bit of a shock. He went in for an x-ray becasue we thought he had an enlarged heart. He was starting to cough if he got over worked or excited so the vet thought it might be his heart.
Once the x-rays were developed, he did indeed have a bit of an enlarged heart...but it also brought to light that his lungs looked like they were full of cotton balls She said she had seen that type of cottony mass on x-rays before, and it usually meant cancer, but she said it could also just be liquid in his lungs from the enlarged heart. So home we went with some pills that, if it was liquid in his lungs, would help remove it. The plan was to x-ray again in a few days and see if the lungs were clear. He was still in good spirits but went downhill very fast that weekend. x-rays were done on the Saturday..and by Sunday he couldn't walk and had stopped eating. I knew it was time...I wasn't going have him suffer any longer. But he had a good life...13 years. Anyway...lol I got a bit off track there.

Here is the information from the rescue:
So what Penny HAD (may still have some) is called multiple liver shunts. Essentially the liver usually filters out all the toxins etc in the blood but Pennys liver was not working properly so her body created these blood vessels (called shunts) that literally shunt the blood around the liver- problem is that her blood was not getting filtered so toxins could build up- although we never saw any signs of side effects besides her excessive drinking and low weight- but she was also starved! What we did was give her a couple meds to help liver function (one of SAMe you can buy off amazon) and the other is called urodisol (spelling not sure?), she will get a refill of this at her next appointment and be good for a few months- she may not needs it much after that depending on what her ultrasound shows. The way we found out about her liver problems was we ran a blood test and her liver enzymes were extremely high, we were not optimistic but kept trying, and she starting putting on weight and getting more energy and was a happy go lucky pup so I re did the blood work and the vet said everything looked NORMAL, we were shocked and so happy! We want to do another utlrasound to check and make sure things are getting better, although just looking at Penny and her blood work I am optimistic!

so she will have one more blood test done and one more ultrasound just to make sure things are good. I know the liver is repairable...so they are hoping that the shunts came into effect because she was so malnourished and that the liver has repaired itself somewhat. From what they are telling me it's not liver disease, just shunts from the being under fed and not in good health for so long. I do plan to also supplement with Milk Thistle, SAMe, Vit K, probiotics & some ACV. I will also use fish oil or coconut oil. I will not be supplementing all at once or right from the get go...except for the Milk Thistle..im reading that is such a good supplement to help with liver issues that they suggest using that right away.

Im determined to do raw...and from what ive been reading online i just have to make sure that I use organic chicken, Turkey or white fish, feed red meat sparingly and organs also sparingly. Apparaently red meats produce more ammonia than poultry. But I know organ meat isn't suppose to be a large percetage of the raw either way. is it 5% or something like that? I've order the book: Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs, Revised Edition: The Definitive Guide to Homemade Meals, the same on they sell on here, and im hoping it has a raw diet for me to follow for Liver shunts...it said it did in the description.

I was hoping to get to a hollistic vet and discuss it with them, but there aren't any in my area. My vet is pretty good, although I have never discussed raw with them...im going to give it a shot. But I would love to give this girl a fighting chance to have a life on raw.

Thanks Cheri....He was an awesome dog...i got so much help from this forum for his DA that he turned into an amazing companion.

I'm just bumping this up to see if anyone can help me.

I found this article that at least has some folks with degrees behind it. They are naturopath based. I ran into several sites that spouted here-say or random home cooked stuff but this one cites actual studies. It doesn't give you a recipe but some guidelines that you could formulate a diet off of.

http://primalpooch.com/canine-liver-disease-raw-diet/

I also found one home cooked "liver diet" with absolutely no bone content and several people commenting that they were going to switch their puppy onto it. Eeek!
https://pethelpful.com/dogs/Tess-and-Her-Liver-Shunt-DIet#lastcomment4554953

Hi Wendy,

Sent you a PM.

Sarah

 Quote: Cathy Goessman

I found this article that at least has some folks with degrees behind it. They are naturopath based. I ran into several sites that spouted here-say or random home cooked stuff but this one cites actual studies. It doesn't give you a recipe but some guidelines that you could formulate a diet off of.

http://primalpooch.com/canine-liver-disease-raw-diet/

I also found one home cooked "liver diet" with absolutely no bone content and several people commenting that they were going to switch their puppy onto it. Eeek!
https://pethelpful.com/dogs/Tess-and-Her-Liver-Shunt-DIet#lastcomment4554953

Hi Cathy,

ive seen those recipes too....i keep hearing conflicting information regarding dogs with liver shunts being ok with edible bones (chicken backs, necks etc.) and using eggshells instead. im trying my hardest to find the site i read that on, but so far no luck.
a few of the recipes im seeing are calling for cooked chicken...again...conflicting information.
I found this article which gives a "recipe" but it shows nothing about giving organs or rmb's and it seems a bit, well, sparse. i've ordered this book and it's on its way but here is the article:
https://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/liver-diets-for-dogs-with-chronic-liver-disease/

 Quote: Sarah Ward

Hi Wendy,

Sent you a PM.

Sarah

Ok, thanks Sarah...im going there now.