As you can all tell I'm getting all my puppy thoughts out after dealing with our unfortunate Lundy situation! I'm making notes of things I learned from the 6 weeks we had him so I can remember for next time, what I learned.

When we were house training him for that short time, the trainer told us to always have him either in crate or ex-pen when inside. She said he should always be in a small space so that he doesn't have accidents or get wound up - that made sense for the accidents part. But after he would go outside and we knew he would be good for a little bit, we'd play with him in the living room or kitchen. She said that once you let them have 'Disneyland' (meaning any space but the crate or pen), then they know there's something better and they fight the crate and pen. So a puppy would have to live 100% of the time,for however long it took to be more trustworthy, in a very small space.

Do you all agree with that?? or do you think it's ok to let them play in other places for 20 minutes after they've gone potty outside?

FWIW, no, I do not agree. House training can take weeks, or more likely months to be really ingrained. It seems very unhealthy for a pup, physically and mentally, to be confined to a crate or ex-pen every moment of every day that he's not outside going potty. (And wouldn't the ex-pen have to be really tiny to keep the pup from going potty inside it?)

When is he supposed to get the exercise a young growing pup of that age needs for bones and muscles to develop properly? When is he supposed to be learning the many things young pups are capable of learning at that age? When is he supposed to be out and about with you, experiencing situations that come under the heading of "socialization"? When is he supposed to simply have fun and learn the proper way to play with humans?

I definitely believe in teaching a pup to accept and be calm in a crate, during the day as well as nighttime, and that life isn't just about bouncing from one thing to another, but I've never had an issue with doing that, while at the same time, allowing a puppy to be a puppy. There's nothing wrong with both dogs and humans getting a little enjoyment out of puppyhood!

House training does require vigilance, but I disagree with the idea that it requires house arrest and solitary confinement!

She meant when the puppy is in the house, they should be in a crate or pen. I tried to communicate that by explaining about how she said not to allow them to play in other rooms, but I guess I didn't do a very good job. She wasn't saying not to take the puppy outside the house for play socializing. She meant that letting them play in your living room or other rooms is opening up a whole new world that they'll want to be in, and so won't be happy with the crate or pen anymore. Your house will be like Disneyland, the crate like jail once they know it exists.

Crate only and only IF you can't watch the puppy 100%.

The x-pen leaves way to much room for the pup to relieve itself in one corner and then walk away from it.

People will put news paper on the floor inside the x-pen.

You can bet the pup will relieve itself on any new paper laying around.

That just doubles up on your house training if the dog can go in the pen while it's in the house.

My choice is to tether the dog to you.

The dog has to go with you any time you move so it can't be in another room all by itself.

You still have to keep an eye on the pup and learn to read the signals of when it's going to go but having it right with you is a HUGE plus in your favor.

The active, high drive pup can learn from the get go that playing in the house isn't allowed.

A bit of short marker training sessions during tv commercials is fine but never loose to just play around in the house.

Sorry if I misunderstood, Lori. Actually, I hope I did, because it all sounded pretty draconian!

I believe that Ed and Cindy suggest that you leash the puppy to you so that he isn't free to roam or have accidents. I don't believe that the crating is for the purposes of keeping the pup confined as much as it is about keeping tabs on him. If the advisor insists on confinement, I'd seriously consider other trainers and methodology.

JMHO. I've seen many dogs crate trained, despite the fact that they hated it at first. Almost all grow to appreciate having their own private space. Here on the Leerburg site, There are a lot of refernces to methods that Ed and Cindy have used successfully. JMO.

What I'm asking is, do you guys play with your puppies in the house before they are house trained? In the living room or any other room, when you are right there watching them?

I do.

Yep. With eyes on them every minute...otherwise crates or in the gated kitchen...even then I am in the immediate area.

I usually take then in the den at night to lay on their bed with a bully stick. They need exposure to other rooms in the house to learn that certain behaviors are or are not allowed in different rooms. I also crate them in the den at night after play time & I am in there reading or watching tv (also with older dogs on their beds). Everyone does it differently a recording to their lifestyle.

 Quote: Anne Jones

Yep. With eyes on them every minute...otherwise crates or in the gated kitchen...even then I am in the immediate area.

I usually take then in the den at night to lay on their bed with a bully stick. They need exposure to other rooms in the house to learn that certain behaviors are or are not allowed in different rooms. I also crate them in the den at night after play time & I am in there reading or watching tv (also with older dogs on their beds). Everyone does it differently a recording to their lifestyle.

That's exactly what we were doing until Lundy decided he didn't want to stay in his crate, and the trainer said it was because we let him go into different rooms sometimes so he knew what he was missing while in the crate. Ugh. Can't decide what came over me during that time, that I believed her on all this stuff!!