Raising a working puppy
#402382 - 11/06/2016 11:06 AM |
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Even though I don't know what kind of work my DDR puppy Xeus will be doing in the future i.e IPO, Mondoring, etc.. I want to start him off the right way. At this point in time I have limited funds so I need to buy puppy DVD's right now that will help me the most at this point in time. These are the puppy DVD's I'm considering: "training a working puppy", "marker training", and the "first steps of bite development". Should I also consider "obedience training"? How about the puppy tugs? I'd like to get the puppy tug set but to save money I'm thinking I could just buy a couple of tugs now that would be most appropriate for training a working puppy.
PS: I know that there other puppy DVD's like "puppy 8 weeks to 8 months" but this is my 4th GSD and my second DDR puppy so I think I can skip that one. There is also "pack structure for puppies" but being a pack leader comes naturally for me, like any dog just in my presence knows I'm the pack leader, even around other men they naturally defer to me as the leader no matter the endeavor.
The most striking features of the correctly bred German Shepherds are firmness of nerves, attentiveness, unshockability, tractability, watchfulness, reliability and incorruptibility together with courage, fighting tenacity and hardness.
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Re: Raising a working puppy
[Re: Albert Glossian ]
#402384 - 11/06/2016 11:16 PM |
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Both the Ellis and the Leerburg "Marker Training With Food" have merit.
The Ellis DVD on training with the tug is excellent.
For a puppy you can use a rag or piece of leather to do bit work but be sure you not doing much when the puppy is teething.
That can put off a lot of pups.
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Kelly wrote 11/07/2016 11:53 AM
Re: Raising a working puppy
[Re: Albert Glossian ]
#402385 - 11/07/2016 11:53 AM |
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If you are going to be serious about training, I would get
The Power of Training with Food w/ Michael Ellis
The Power of Playing Tug w/ Michael Ellis
Foundation of Puppy Bitework w/ Michael Ellis
The First Steps series was filmed in the 90s and Michael Ellis' Foundation DVD is much better.
Marker Training is kind of a companion dog owner version of the Power of Food - if you are going further with the work than a typical pet owner, I'd get Power of Food.
Raising a Working Puppy is about socialization and getting the pup environmentally stable. It's not a training DVD.
Tugs - we used to use rolled up towels for the pups. You can also get some pieces of fleece or material and braid it together for a tug. Like Bob says, you won't be doing much while the pup is teething.
Once the pup is done teething you will want to get a variety of surfaces for the pup to bite to avoid equipment bias. Leather, synthetic, and jute, for sure.
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Re: Raising a working puppy
[Re: Albert Glossian ]
#402409 - 11/10/2016 07:42 AM |
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Great info Bob and Kelly especially about training with markers for a companion dog vs food for a working dog. I'm going to order the 3 dvd's you mentioned Kelly. Should I also get the 'raising a working puppy' dvd?
Actually what are the differences between raising a companion puppy vs a working puppy?
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Re: Raising a working puppy
[Re: Albert Glossian ]
#402412 - 11/10/2016 10:49 PM |
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Not a great deal but it depends on the temperament of the dogs.
A high drive dog is easier to work with doing markers with food or a toy.
Doesn't mater if its' a pet or a serious working dog.
Either way the marker training can set an excellent foundation for a pet dog, sport dog, whatever.
The reward is whatever the dog really gets excited over.
You can find out what that may be and even with a laid back dog.
In the bite sports there is very little that can excite a dog more then getting a bite.
Depending on what direction you take you may want to keep to many folks from petting/playing with your dog.
You still want to socialize/expose any dog to everything and anything.
"TO ME" that means I want my dogs to except whatever person, place, thing or situation in a neutral manner.
ALL my dogs no matter if they were house dogs, outside dogs, hunting dogs, show dogs, competition OB dog, SAR dogs, herding dogs, bite sport dogs, you name it, they were ALL my pets.
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Kelly wrote 11/11/2016 04:34 PM
Re: Raising a working puppy
[Re: Albert Glossian ]
#402417 - 11/11/2016 04:34 PM |
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A working dog is going to be exposed to more things than your average companion dog. They will typically be in a vehicle more often, be around other dogs, other people, often in highly chaotic or noisy environments. Getting the puppy exposed and neutralized to all of that is essential.
Now, that all said, I did the "working pup protocol" with dogs that were just going to be companions, as I wanted them to be stable in the face of whatever I throw at them. I took them EVERYWHERE - play grounds, movie theaters, farm stores, etc (with permission, of course). That way, if I ever did decide to do any work with them they were ready for it. As it turns out, Toni, ended up doing Agility, Flyball and Rally, even though my initial intentions with her were just to be a pet.
Is the DVD necessary? Depends on you and your training experience. If you don't have a lot with working dogs, it will give you some good ideas of what to do with the puppy - if you have experience with working dogs, you probably already know the kinds of things the dog will be exposed to in the future.
One thing that I did not do with Toni that I should have was neutralize her to touch by strangers. There are times when a working dog will have to be touched by a stranger - measurement for jump heights, at site vet check, etc. Toni will tolerate only so much touching, and I should have worked with her more on that - she's passable, but edgy.
My signature pic is of Toni lying at my feet waiting to work. The pic doesn't show what's going on around her: less than 5 feet away, border collies were tugging and barking, dogs were running a flyball course, there were tons of people and noise. She lay there waiting for her command to go to work - that's what you want from a working dog.
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Re: Raising a working puppy
[Re: Albert Glossian ]
#402418 - 11/11/2016 05:51 PM |
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Great stuff Bob and Kelly, I so appreciate your responses! I don't have any experience with workings dogs so both of your experiences are invaluable for me. I know there is a learning curve for me so that I can do the best I can by Xeus no matter what kind of work he'll do or even if he just becomes a great companion for me, he is already my BFF! The good news is that I can work with him full time. I will go ahead and get the 'raising a working puppy' dvd along with Mr. Ellis's 3 dvd's mentioned above.
Another thing I don't understand is when it is said in the info for the 'raising a working puppy' dvd that Mr. Ellis trains his puppy's with a harness but doesn't use a harness and least until the pup is conditioned to both in protection work. So he doesn't use a leash hooked to the harness? Or does he mean he uses the leash with a collar? Also what kind of collar should I get my puppy used to? Should I use a regular leather buckle collar, a slip collar, or a prong collar? I know no matter what kind of collar I use it will not be for any kind of a correction! I bottom line is I want to know what kind of gear I'll need to train my puppy?
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Re: Raising a working puppy
[Re: Albert Glossian ]
#402419 - 11/11/2016 06:09 PM |
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PS: in the info for the dvd on 'raising a working puppy' it is said that we are not as concerned with the manners of a working dog. What does that mean?
PSS: in the above post I was mixing up the 'puppy bite' dvd with the 'raising a working puppy' dvd. My bad! Woliwon (thanks in Penobscot).
The most striking features of the correctly bred German Shepherds are firmness of nerves, attentiveness, unshockability, tractability, watchfulness, reliability and incorruptibility together with courage, fighting tenacity and hardness.
Max Von Stephanitz |
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Re: Raising a working puppy
[Re: Albert Glossian ]
#402420 - 11/11/2016 10:52 PM |
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"Not as concerned with the manners of a working dog".
I want to make a separation of the term "working dog" as opposed to a "sport dog" or "pet".
"To ME" a true working dog such as a police K9 wont necessarily have the precise obedience as a Schutzhund/IPO dog simply because the "sport" dog is more about points for that perfect obedience performance.
The street K9 is absolutely under the control of the handler but precise obedience performance isn't necessary.
I started my now passed GSD in SAR. We did a lot of demos at schools, scout groups, etc.
He was required to completely obey my commands but if he wasn't precise in his heeling it didn't matter.
In AKC obedience competition and Schutzhund/IPO he was expected to be very concise in his obedience.
In other words manners counted in order to keep him from tugging on his leash, moving out in front of me in his heeling, looking around, etc.
The working street K9 has more leeway as to heeling with less precision, pulling on the lead, moving out in front of me, etc.
Obviously there is a need for the street K9 to be looking around and the competition type heeling doesn't allow that.
The dog is required to stay focused on the handler at all times in spite of distractions.
Outside of competition I have always referred to ALL my dogs as truck dogs.
In other words my dogs will go with me anywhere, anytime and do as I command but those commands never involve any precision.
If they want to walk with me 3-4 ft to the side or behind me that's fine unless a situation comes along that I want then precisely next to me.
I will add that my house manners commands were in English and my competition commands were in German.
They understand the different words to mean the difference between casual obedience such as "go lay down" meaning walk to a couple of feet if they want but DO lay down.
When I say "Platz" I mean hit the deck fast and immediately.
The different words means completely different behaviors to the dog and they are taught differently.
Done correctly there is never any confusion.
Hope all my jabber makes a little sense.
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Re: Raising a working puppy
[Re: Albert Glossian ]
#402423 - 11/12/2016 05:23 PM |
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Thanks Bob for letting me know your definition of a working dog vs a sport dog and how these differences relate to manners and training. I totally agree that a working dog should be trained to do work, i.e. K9, military, S&R etc.. And that a sport dog is just that, a dog that is being trained for the various dog sports I.e, competition obedience, IPO, etc.. Part of my confusion is in how the info for some of the puppy dvd's lumps both working and sport dogs together. So now it makes it much easier to figure out what dvd's I would need for any future activities that my puppy and I will do. The most important thing I'm interested now is obedience training as I want a well mannered obedience dog, plus the easiest dog sport for me to do alone would be competition obedience. But there may be the chance in the future to do IPO, Mondoring, etc. plus I think my puppy would really enjoy the bite work along with the tracking required for the various dog sports involving protection and tracking. So I may also train him in bite work and tracking. I'm also with you as all my previous GSD's were as you said truck dogs. So it looks like I won't be needing the 'raising a working puppy' dvd at all. I am ordering a harness with my next order and probably a leather collar also.
The most striking features of the correctly bred German Shepherds are firmness of nerves, attentiveness, unshockability, tractability, watchfulness, reliability and incorruptibility together with courage, fighting tenacity and hardness.
Max Von Stephanitz |
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