Hi again
My new puppy is doing great and learn very fast but still very excitable and high strong at time.
He is now 4 months old and 50lb and he can pull like a tank! He can heel for a dew meter but not a few minutes walk. I have a flat collar and a harness (not a no pull)

He can actually pull me if I am not on solid ground! (socks on tiles or hard wood floor)
He is very confident, in your face kind of boy

Should I go prong or no pull harness.
My scent work school want a halter but I can see him hurt his neck very badly

How is a halter going to hurt his neck?

The pressure from a halter should be on his chest and shoulders without restricting movement.

Sport scent work or actual "real" scent work I don't like pressure on the dog.

There are dogs that are driven to follow scent and these dog can put up with a lot from the handler but I think many dogs can be inhibited with to much pressure in scent work.

 Quote: Bob Scott

How is a halter going to hurt his neck?

The pressure from a halter should be on his chest and shoulders without restricting movement.

Sport scent work or actual "real" scent work I don't like pressure on the dog.

There are dogs that are driven to follow scent and these dog can put up with a lot from the handler but I think many dogs can be inhibited with to much pressure in scent work.

I have to jump in here and say I believe Ariane is saying she is currently using either a flat collar or a harness, but her scent work instructor wants her to use a halter, in other words, one of those contraptions that goes on the dog's head like a horse halter.

I do not have a high opinion of those, especially for a strong, exuberant puppy. Yes, it is my belief that a dog's neck can be hurt with those things, unless it is the rare dog that just magically succumbs to it. My personal experience with trying one on my own high-energy, strong-pulling Doberman is that, after rolling on the ground frantically, trying to get the thing off, which he would do each and every time I put it on -- he never "got used to it" -- he would then resolve to continue pulling by arching his neck and dropping his face to a vertical position (exactly what you want in a dressage horse but not your dog), and then would still pull with all his might. Dog necks being built differently than horse necks, he was definitely putting a lot of stress on the neck vertebrae. He pulled so hard he ended up rubbing the hair off the top of his muzzle where the strap goes over it. Needless to say, I gave up the idea of using a head halter on him.

I hope you'll get some more responses about prong versus some type of harness (or some other suggestion that hasn't been mentioned yet). I tried half a dozen different types of harnesses, but the prong was the only thing that worked for my dog. Still, I have to use it very carefully and judiciously, or he quickly becomes desensitized to it.

I wanted to also mention that the DVD "Leash Skills With Michael Ellis" goes into great depth on how to teach a young dog to respond to leash pressure without pulling, and how to handle a puppy who pulls when he's not fully trained to walk on a loose leash but you still need to get him out and about. My dog that I'm referencing above had too many opportunities to practice his bad behavior when he was young, and his pulling became a very ingrained habit. With the help of methods such as those described in the DVD above, I've gotten quite a bit of improvement out of him, but every casual walk is still a training session. You can bet with my next puppy, I will start from the get-go with the methods used by ME.

At 4 months old, I'm wondering if it's too soon to put your dog into a scent training program before he learns basic obedience skills such as being able to walk with a loose leash. I know you probably have your heart set on advanced training such as scent work but training the ability not to pull and doing scent work at the same time seems like two conflicting goals. A prong collar is a perfect tool for working on shaping behavior, especially for loose leash walking, but I would think that wouldn't be allowed in scent work training.

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

 Quote: Bob Scott

How is a halter going to hurt his neck?

The pressure from a halter should be on his chest and shoulders without restricting movement.

Sport scent work or actual "real" scent work I don't like pressure on the dog.

There are dogs that are driven to follow scent and these dog can put up with a lot from the handler but I think many dogs can be inhibited with to much pressure in scent work.

I have to jump in here and say I believe Ariane is saying she is currently using either a flat collar or a harness, but her scent work instructor wants her to use a halter, in other words, one of those contraptions that goes on the dog's head like a horse halter.

I do not have a high opinion of those, especially for a strong, exuberant puppy. Yes, it is my belief that a dog's neck can be hurt with those things, unless it is the rare dog that just magically succumbs to it. My personal experience with trying one on my own high-energy, strong-pulling Doberman is that, after rolling on the ground frantically, trying to get the thing off, which he would do each and every time I put it on -- he never "got used to it" -- he would then resolve to continue pulling by arching his neck and dropping his face to a vertical position (exactly what you want in a dressage horse but not your dog), and then would still pull with all his might. Dog necks being built differently than horse necks, he was definitely putting a lot of stress on the neck vertebrae. He pulled so hard he ended up rubbing the hair off the top of his muzzle where the strap goes over it. Needless to say, I gave up the idea of using a head halter on him.

I hope you'll get some more responses about prong versus some type of harness (or some other suggestion that hasn't been mentioned yet). I tried half a dozen different types of harnesses, but the prong was the only thing that worked for my dog. Still, I have to use it very carefully and judiciously, or he quickly becomes desensitized to it.

YES to Cheri's post You do NOT want any device that TWISTS a Doberman's Neck around SIDEWAYS

For those who may be reading this thread and wondering why three Doberman owners have expressed concern about causing unnecessary stress to their necks, it is because Dobermans are the breed most commonly afflicted with a condition called cervical vertebral instability (CVI), or Wobbler's disease. I'm not suggesting all Dobermans have or will get this condition. That's not the case, but it is worth being cautious -- I think for all dogs, of course, but especially if you have a breed susceptible to Wobbler's.

https://vet.osu.edu/wobbler-syndrome

Bob
They are talking about the head collar "halti" "halther" not harness

that is it!

He know all the basic stuff but in the class. The instructor want quiet dogs. He will bark when she speak because she is very excited.
He will want to play with other dogs because other people have to come and sit right next to use (6 dogs in the class and 50 chairs!)

While he work he is fine and after a few minutes he does calm down.

But he is fast and strong

Many good trainer use the halti but I'm not a big fan of then.

TO ME it's similar to putting a bridal on a horse.

It's meant to control the head but is "controlling" really training?!

Hopefully those here that have had success with actually "training" with a halti will step in here.

As to neck injury I for sure wouldn't use a halti for making corrections.

Again, it's a control method!