Hi everyone. It's been a while since I've been the boards. We got a golden retriever puppy about 10 days ago. She is 9 weeks old. Her name is Kyla. She is a velcro dog - loves to be with her people. She is a typical puppy with bursts of acting nuts and being full of energy, but she also has a lot of moments when she's pretty mellow and is happy just sleeping with her head on your feet while you're in the kitchen.

We gated off half the kitchen and have a crate with the door open in there. We also have a crate in our bedroom by the bed. She does well at night and sleeps without crying. But during the day it's a whole different ball game. She does not like being alone in the kitchen for more than 10 seconds - she barks and whines loudly until you come back. If you are out in the kitchen doing stuff she goes into that crate on her own and a couple times has chosen to take a nap in it while the door is open. But put her in either crate and close the door during the day and she screams.

My dilema - the breeder says let her scream and in 4 days she'll submit to the crate. But the positive reinforcement trainer that we will do puppy classes with says we should go through a process of training her to like the crate by throwing in lots of treats and then gradually closing the door for 1 second, open it and treat, close it and open it, etc. Slowly building up to her accepting being in there for longer and longer.

Which one is best???? And if it's the second one, how do I get anything done except hang in the kitchen? I can't even go to the store or a walk at this point.

The trainer says that letting her wail will cause separation anxiety, and then we'll have a whole bigger problem.

Hey Lori!

Where does she sleep at night?

I have no problem letting a puppy fuss a bit when crated at night.

What you don't want to do at any time the dog is crated is to let it out while it's fussing.

With marker training you can just stand there and "as soon as" the pup quiets down every for a second then mark and reward.

Timing is critical!

I"ve never had an issue with giving a strong quiet when a crated puppy howls.

Markers have been a big leap in teaching just about any behavior needed.

"As soon as" the pup stops barking for a second then mark and reward

Obviously the pup needs to understand marker training but, at that age it goes suprisingly fast.

You may also want to try and cover the crate while it's in there.

To a lot of dogs that creates a less distracting and calming place for the pup.

Put a piece of plywood on top the crate first.

It should be larger then the crate because you want it to hold the cover away from the sides to keep the pup from catching it and pulling it into the crate.

We do cover it. And she's fine at night, it's just during the day. Will letting her cry till she stops cause separation anxiety?

She knows marker training - been doing it since day one. I will definitely do the marking when she's quiet thing during the day. But if I have to run to the store or someplace, and I put her in the crate and she screams the whole time (not sure how long she would scream), will that cause behavior problems? like separation anxiety?

 Quote: Lori Hall

Will letting her cry till she stops cause separation anxiety?

Hi Lori,

Crying does not cause Separation Anxiety -- Crying till she settles herself down does not cause it either ... "SA" is a wrongly over-used diagnosis, IMHO, but that's a topic for some other thread (LOL).

When we ignore their Complaining, they eventually (usually sooner rather than later) LEARN that it produces NO response from us & then they lose interest in carrying on WITHOUT any Self-Rewarding / Activity-Reinforcing result -- This works with kids, Animals, and HUSBANDS

 Quote: Lori Hall

But if I have to run to the store or someplace, and I put her in the crate and she screams the whole time (not sure how long she would scream), will that cause behavior problems? like separation anxiety?

No, it won't, Lori -- They typically Quit Complaining soon as we're out of ear-shot for a little bit ... Honestly, it's like they think to themselves, "Well THAT didn't Work; time to take a nap / chew my bone / guard the place / whatever instead."

If you want to see exactly how the long the crying goes on try this:
Use your cell phone to call the house, answer the house phone and leave it near your puppy, but somewhere she can't reach it. Leave the house and listen on your cell phone to see how long the crying and howling actually goes on. Make sure you time it.

When I did it, I thought it was about 10 minutes of crying but when I looked at the timer, it was only a little over 2 minutes. It just seemed like 10 minutes. Then next time was a little over 1 minute and the third time was less than a minute.

Make sure you give her something good to distract her like a Kong with frozen peanut butter or cream cheese or something else long lasting.

As the saying goes, "This too shall pass".

 Quote: Debbie Martin

If you want to see exactly how the long the crying goes on try this:
Use your cell phone to call the house, answer the house phone and leave it near your puppy, but somewhere she can't reach it. Leave the house and listen on your cell phone to see how long the crying and howling actually goes on. Make sure you time it.

When I did it, I thought it was about 10 minutes of crying but when I looked at the timer,

it was only a little over 2 minutes.

It just seemed like 10 minutes.

Then next time was a little over 1 minute and the third time was less than a minute.

Make sure you give her something good to distract her like a Kong with frozen peanut butter or cream cheese or something else long lasting.

As the saying goes, "This too shall pass".

Where is the "LIKE" button, Debbie?

I have "never" know of being allowed to whine cause separation anxiety.

 Quote: Bob Scott

Hey Lori!

Where does she sleep at night?

I have no problem letting a puppy fuss a bit when crated at night.

What you don't want to do at any time the dog is crated is to let it out while it's fussing.

With marker training you can just stand there and "as soon as" the pup quiets down every for a second then mark and reward.

Timing is critical!

I"ve never had an issue with giving a strong quiet when a crated puppy howls.

Markers have been a big leap in teaching just about any behavior needed.

"As soon as" the pup stops barking for a second then mark and reward

Obviously the pup needs to understand marker training but, at that age it goes suprisingly fast.

You may also want to try and cover the crate while it's in there.

To a lot of dogs that creates a less distracting and calming place for the pup.

Put a piece of plywood on top the crate first.

It should be larger then the crate because you want it to hold the cover away from the sides to keep the pup from catching it and pulling it into the crate.

Bob, I did your suggestion of marker training this afternoon - put her in the crate and sat there with treats. She started doing her rebelling and each time she stopped i immediately said 'yes' and treated her. After less than 5 minutes she was asleep. I left the room and she slept for almost an hour.

But why won't that make her dependent on me to sit there treating her every time I put her in there for a nap??

(to answer your question about where she sleeps, she sleeps in the crate by our bed - the same place she took the nap today)