If anyone has a few minutes I could use some feedback or things to try/consider on how to improve my tug sessions with Greta.

Some positive things: I'm pleased that she seems engaged; when I bring out the tug she visibly perks up and her energy level goes up. She seems to want to bite the tug and will 'tug' back on it. She will release it when I use the holding still method from the power of tug video without a problem.

Some negative things that I'm sure are because I did something not quite right... She's still pretty chewy on the tug. She's not interested in bringing it back- she'd prefer to run away with it and try to chew on the handles or end.

The biggest thing I want to improve is that unlike the dogs in the video, she's not very interested in bringing it back to tug some more. I put her on a slip lead to keep her from absconding with it now. I say her name, clap my hands, move around, act excited, and she will eventually head my way but mostly (I'm guessing) because she's limited by the leash. I'm wondering if I did too much "out" at first and that encouraged her to be more possessive with it. I just ordered another tug (slowly adding to the collection) from LB without handles to add to rotation.

By re-reviewing the video I also just realized that I've been using the 'yes' marker for when she outs, but not when I let her win and she begins to return to me. This is something I plan to add to see if it helps.

Thoughts and additional ideas would be most welcome- I'm sure I'm mucking parts of this up through ignorance as this is my first dog to tug with. It could also be that I'm just being impatient, lol. I have watched and am re-watching the Ellis power of tug video.

Happy Friday all.

I have never let Harry win. The tug is mine, and I reward the outs with chunks of meat, so he is happy to relinquish. He is a powerful tugger, and what I do is place him in a sit, pop the tug in his mouth, tug for a few feet, as he engages better if we move around, ask him to drop it, while i still have hold of it,and the minute his mouth is off, he gets an immediate yes with reward. Than we either move on, or replay. I use the tug for distraction for cars, and it worked. We stop for tug a few times a walk, and after grooming.
But if I let him win, he would be off with the tug also. I instead switch off the tug with one of his stuffies, or a chew to end the session when at home, in the walk he gets a jackpot reward before we move on to continue our walk. And I keep them short, sweet and ending on a high note. Now he keeps an eye on my hands, waiting for that tug to come out!

Thanks for the response, Becky. It sounds like what you're doing is working very well with your goals, but that it might be a different method than the one Mr. Ellis describes on his video.

The thing I like about the method on his video is the idea that it's not the tug that the dog values, but the activity/interaction with you. I hope to get to the point where she's running back at me to play again- I can definitely see the applications further down the road.

Remind me again how old she is?

Also are you moving a lot when you are tugging? The movement adds excitement to the tug game. The movement is also something she only gets when she tugs with you.

I would not let her have the tug long enough to self satisfy by chewing on it. So the game would be tug tug tug, let her win, back up a step or two immediately and calling her name, grab the tug again, and tug tug tug. Have fun!!

Just a couple of thoughts.

https://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/1398/Tug_Playing_Tips_with_Mark_Keating

This video might help as well.

I "never" use the tug for a retrieve unless the dog understands the game will continue when the tug comes back.but

It will always be a great reward for retrieving anything I toss.

It's a very high value item for most dogs so without a solid retrieve OR a "higher" value reward then the tug then she has little reason to bring it back.

Yes I've had a GSD and other dogs that were obsessive retrievers even when first tested at 5 wks old and they would happily bring back anything I tossed.

"FOR ME" testing a pup for a high level, natural retrieve lets me know that pup is willing to work with a human.

Again that's just MHO!

My present GSD had absolutely no desire to retrieve.

Marker training by back chaining changed that using his kong or a game of tug FOR reward.

I viewed the video from Kelly after I posted.

I completely agree IF the dog "knows" that bringing it back will result in another game of tug OR the dog is on a leash as in the video.

Without a natural retrieve or a solid trained retrieve some dogs can be very possessive of the tug, kong on a rope, whatever.

They now have something of very high value and have no reason to bring it back unless they KNOW that bringing it back will result in being rewarded with the game of tug.

Hope this makes sense without conflicting with the excellent video.

This doesn't mean your dog is necessarily possessive, it just may mean the dog doesn't yet understand what your wanting.

I 100% agree with Kelly and Bob and also with the experience Carolyn has made. I myself had a lot of trouble with tugging. The first two who learned it were one of my Pits and the Lab-Mix. They never had difficulties with the retrieve, but they didn't understand the tug as a game together with me. The always expected a food reward for bringing back a tossed object to me. I had to stop giving food for this and to tug with them on a diferent spot than where is our training lab.

I also made the mistake not to let them win enough. (I don't mean a lot). I let them win, kept myself in movement, stepping back etc. t took quite a lot of time, but once they had understood, that not the toy was the reward but the interaction with me, the continuation of the game, then they started to tug how it should be. They also out immediately when I say this and make the tug "dead". They are now crazy about it. I can also allow them the pleasure to run quite a long round with the tug they've won , they always come back in order to go on playing. But I never alllow them to start chewing in between of course.

My second Pit has after six years (!) learned to grab a dumbbell, but doesn't yet lift it up. Nevertheless I have to see this as improvement and reward it. Before she touched every toy only with her nose. I was extremely surprised when I saw her grab.

Charlie, the disabled one, will - at least I guess - never be a tugger. All he does is a short handtouch and a touch of a little board.

Thanks for the additional comments!

Kelly, Greta is about 13 months now. I felt like I wasn't making progress with her learning the tug game just before the holidays and decided to take a break and focus on loose leash walking and informal heeling while the weather was nice. We are back at it now.

I really appreciate the link- I had already stumbled upon that video with Mr. Keating and found it exceptionally helpful! That's what made me wonder if there was too much "out"-ing and not enough of her winning in our play. I think I was also tugging too long between letting her win, as you and Christina suggested. I re-watched the segment in the Tug video that talks about possessiveness (around 3:27:00 for anyone else who has it) and that seemed to reinforce all of this.

Bob- she does seem to have some natural retrieve. Depending on how valuable the object is and how valuable the reward I have she will happily return with it. I was putting off purposefully working on retrieving until we really get this tug thing down, though.

On a related front, we've lost a little ground on engagement in general. I can tell on our walks in the park that I need to step it up some more. With our other dog's rapid decline in health our schedule has been really out of whack. Feels like you just can't spend enough time with a pet who might be reaching the end.

Loosing engagement can sometimes be caused by trying to hard.

That could mean your working to long also.

If she give you a couple of good retrieves in the beginning then stop.

to many push the dog to failure for no other reason other then they want to see "just one more good one".

Leave the dog wanting!

That's exactly what I've read in many books and was recommended in varios videos. They say we shoukd end every session (not only tug) at the peak of the pleasure of the dog. He'll think "pity!" and will keep looking forward to the next one. As Bob says - it makes them want.

I've also read, we shouldn't give food rewards for tugging. I'm not experienceed enough to judge if this is appropriate for every dog. For my own it proved to be right, as they understand now re- gaming as reward.