I have a puppy on Chicken Soup... (puppy) and have been very happy with it overall. He got diarrhea over the weekend - probably from bacteria after eating or chewing on dead frogs in the yard.... We put him on boiled chicken and rice for a few meals while he got better and he went from pooping 6-7x/day to 2x/day. He's back on the Chicken Soup and the frequency of bowel movements is increasing once again.

My question is whether anyone has thoughts on the newest Innova brand - Evo. They tout it as being the kibble most like feeding a raw diet (which I would not be willing to try due to the risk of salmonella or e. coli) and it is grain-free. Is anyone feeding it that has noticed a decrease in frequency/mass of BMs? I've also written about my puppy pooping in his crate, which is happening less, although is still a concern - I can hardly imagine that he wouldn't at some point with 7 BMs a day, though.

Any input would be appreciated!

As an aside, the EVO ends up costing slightly less because the amount fed is so much less.

I just started feeding the evo product and have been very happy with it. We are currently changing a securitys K9 unit over to it as well. The protien levels is very high and should be good for working dogs and is well balanced with the crude fat. The amount I feed is alot less. When I feed royal canin I had to feed 4 cups a day. One the EVO I only feed 2.5 to 3 cups a day. Yes the bags are smaller but the bag lasts alot longer. It is a very good alternative to raw. I feed it for years and had to change do to traveling with my dogs alot.

Talk soon
Dave

The protein and fat levels only seem high in comparison to other dry foods because the food is formulated on a no grain, "like raw" foundation. Raw food is mostly water, at least 60-70%. Therefore, when looking at protein/fat analysis in raw diets vs. kibble, one must take into account the water weight. As EVO is a dehydrated food (water removed), it seems disproportionately high.

I have been feeding it to my Rottweiler puppy because he has such a high metabolism, I was having a hard time keeping weight on him with other foods. There have been many heated discussions on the Rottweiler boards as to whether EVO is safe for puppies. The bag says it's an "all life stages food" yet the sales reps will often say it's not appropriate for puppies. After much delving, it comes down to this: the food is fine for puppies, AS LONG AS you are willing to limit the intake and raise your puppy in a healthy fashion (meaning, keep the puppy LEAN). Overfeeding is not good for any puppy and as the general public seems to express love for dogs as amount of food fed, the propensity for creating obese puppies with this food is high. Thus, they aren't pushing it for pups, with the general public b/c of the seeming inability to keep the puppies lean.

My boy has been on it for 4 months (he's 6mos old), he's a very active puppy with heavy bone and very high drives. He has had NO problems with pano or any other bone/growth disorders. He's well muscled, has a gorgeous coat and no dog breath. Stool volume is low.

Gretchen-
Thanks for the post! My pup is a Rottie/Shepherd mix (16 weeks old), so your input was extremely helpful. He hasn't had trouble gaining weight (although he's been catching up for lost time after a rough bout with Parvo). He hasn't gained too quickly, but he's definitely a growing boy.
I haven't been unhappy with the Chicken Soup he's on, but I just thought if EVO requires so much less food per day (1-1/2 c as opposed to 3-1/2), it might help with how much comes back out of him. Do you think the lack of grain/fiber in EVO is a problem? I know it has veggies, so maybe that helps on the digestion end as well.

I see no problems at all with the "no grain" and that's one of the things I love most about it. Dogs really don't need the carbs, they can digest them, but they don't need them (this month's Whole Dog Journal has an interesting discussion on this.....regarding why dogs get gas).

I have been feeding 3C per day just to keep up with his metabolism, but it is finally starting to slow down just a touch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My pup (Samson) is only 16 wks, so he's not up to 3c of the EVO yet - although he already gets more than that of Chicken Soup.

I think I'm going to make the switch, I'd just feel better not having to feed him so much when he has the "poopy issues". I got a sample of it which I've used as treats and he seems to like it very well (although he likes Chicken Soup as well).

The other thing is that he appears to want to drink a lot of water on the Chicken Soup, which is common with other dogs on that diet. Since he also pees in the crate, switching foods may help with that as well.

After making the decision to switch to Innova EVO, I went and bought a 3.3 lb. bag and then happened to look at the difference between calories in the servings of Chicken Soup and EVO.

For my pup's age/weight Chicken Soup puppy recommends (on the low end) 3.5 cups per day which equals over 1200 calories. The EVO recommends 1 cup per day which equals 537 calories. Since that is a HUGE difference, I thought I'd better call Natura Foods (makers of Innova) and ask about it.

They informed me that Innova EVO is not recommended for large breed puppies because of the high protein content. Their research has indicated that it causes too rapid growth for large breeds and they therefore cannot recommend it. Apparently they are working on changing their website and making sure that the word gets out not to use the product with large breeds, but I did not find any information indicating that it wouldn't be appropriate for my dog prior to calling them.

They did mention that I could try not feeding him a whole lot and seeing how he does, but I certainly wouldn't feed less than a cup a day. Just thought this information might be useful to others looking into this product.

I wish I could feed my puppy this food without worrying about her growing out of control. I'm feeding her Innova Puppy right now, and I'm very impressed. I will most definately feed her EVO when she's done growing. These guys make great dog food, and my vet hates the fact I feed this instead of Iams or Science Diet. I'm a believer.

I, too, am feeding my 5mth old pups (Golden Retriever and Border Collie) Chicken Soup and they have the most God-awful "poots", as my kids call them! They also drink quite a bit of water which I just thought was because they play CONSTANTLY, tugging and slobbering all over each other. Interesting that these "problems" could be because of the food. They really like the Chicken Soup but I think I'm going to research EVO now. Anyone have any info/feedback on Chicken Soup Adult food? My 3 y/o Golden seems to do well on it - and no poots to knock us out like the little guys! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I've struggled also with the dog food question. I started my puppy on Innove puppy and at 10 months switched to Innova EVO. One of the reasons I did this was because of the anatomy of the basic carnivor.....I'm no expert, and some of my research may be opinion so do with it what you want.......

......Some typical features common to carnivores are a large mouth opening, a single hinge joint that lays in the same plane as the teeth, and a large primary muscle on the side of the head for operating the jaw. The teeth are short and pointed, made for grasping and shredding. These teeth come together to give a cutting motion and act like shears. The teeth and mouth of the carnivore are developed to swallow food whole, not for chewing or crushing. Carnivores do not have digestive enzymes in their saliva . Humans have amylase (in their saliva), which helps to begin to break down complex carbohydrates. The dogs digestive tract is one-third to one-half the length of an omnivore. This shortness is designed for adaption for quick, muscular digestion of raw meat and bones. Carnivores have a much higher concentration of hydrochloric acid in the stomach for break down of proteins and to kill any dangerous bacteria. Their stomach acidity is less than or equal to pH 1 with food in the stomach, while humans are pH 4 to 5. Dogs, as carnivores, have difficulty digesting grains and other complex carbohydrates. With the lack of digestive enzymes in the mouth, complex carbohydrates are not predigested, and take a long time to break down in the stomach, and small intestine, if they break down at all. Most of the complex carbohydrates pass through undigested, and create large stools in the dog. It is interesting to note that dry dog foods are mainly cereal, consisting of a large part of corn, wheat, rice and soy. While dog food companies would have you believe that grains are a good source of protein, the fact is that dogs have a very difficult time digesting and utilizing protein from carbohydrates. Studies show dogs do best on animal protein, and the higher the quality, the better the protein is assimilated. The poorer quality proteins create a stress on the dogs kidneys and it makes proper nutritional digestion difficult.
Dr. David Kronfeld reports that carbohydrates are most important for dogs in two situations: puppies just coming off the mothers milk (which is 12% carbohydrates) and the lactating bitch, who needs three times the usual turnover of blood glucose for production of milk. He goes on to state that "no carbohydrates need be provided in the diet for pups after weaning or adult dogs, not even for those subjected to hard work. The liver is easily able to synthesize sufficient glucose (from amino acids derived from protein and glycerol derived from fats) for transport in the blood and utilization in other tissues." He also goes to state that he feels the high carbohydrate content in dog foods is what contributes to coprophagy (stool eating), and hypoglycemia.
Dr. Kronfeld does state that of all the grains, oatmeal is resistant to milling, and since it is available in flaked form, it makes the best choice for dogs, as it has a higher protein and fat content.
Cooking animal protein also changes many of the amino acids chains, and makes some of the amino acids they need unusable or destroyed. Dogs' need for amino acids differ from humans, and raw meat contains many or most needed for good tissue health, immunity and good coat and skin for carnivores.
Lastly, cooking and processed foods, such as dog foods, creates difficulty in digestion. It can take up to 15 hours to digest processed foods, while fresh foods digest in about 4 to 6 hours. The longer food stays in the system, the greater chance of allergies and digestive upsets.
Most of the fat used in processed foods can easily go rancid, and need preservatives to help maintain their integrity. Many of these preservatives have been found to be detrimental to the dogs health and immune systems, most commonly ethoxiquin, BHA and BHT. These can inhibit the production of white blood cells, lower the immune system and block the absorption of glucose. Also lacking in processed foods are the Omega-3 fatty acids, necessary for good coat and skin health. These fats cannot withstand the long shelf life of processed foods.
Fat is crucial to carnivores, in maintaining and creating energy, and to produce glycerol. While humans require some carbohydrates for energy and endurance, carnivores need fats, both animal and plant, for creating glucose and developing stamina.

I know this is long.....I took section from article I've read, but I hope it is helpful.