Ed Frawley Administrator Reg: 07-11-2001
Posts: 2112
Loc:
Offline
There seems to be a mistaken belief that dogs that are trained in KNPV are automatically capable of being police dogs. The truth is that the vast majority of KNPV dogs are trained almost exculisvely in prey drive and the majority of them can never do police service work.
Several years ago at the KNPV championships in Den Bosh Holland the majority of the dogs in the competition were unimpressive prey dogs - there were much better dogs the following year.
When the Dutch police look for service dogs and select a KNPV titled dog they take 6 weeks to cross train the dog into patrol work.
Hey Ed....RIGHT ON!!!!!
Just because it says KNPV does not mean crap about the dogs doing street work. I met the original importer of Tjek the 1998 PH1 National Champ. He sold the dog to the folks who have him now. He said the dog had NOTHING in him for street work. Sport, just fine, but no way the street. You have to select a dog for the dog and not the title or lack of title they have!
To a novice like me very intense prey drive gives the false impression of defense at times. These dogs generally have so much prey they get away with little defense until some real pressure or danger places them in a threatening position that their nerves and prey drive can not compensate for. These are what I would call sport dogs. All show and no go. Great for the sporting enthusiast but will get a handler killed in a real encounter.
Ed Frawley Administrator Reg: 07-11-2001
Posts: 2112
Loc:
Offline
You misunderstand what I am saying anout KNPV dogs. Just because they are mostaly prey dogs does not mean that some do not have the nerves to be service dogs. A dog with the potential to be a super service dog can be trained in prey his whole life, he can be locked in prey, this does not mean that when exposed to pressure he has not seen before that he will break and run. There are too many other factors that go into it.
My poin in the original post was just that almost every KNPV dog is like every Mondio Ring Dog is like every Belgium RIng Dog is like the hight majority of Scvhutzhund dogs - they are all prey dogs.
This does not make them all bad. It means they are trained in prey and if they are to go to the street to work they need to be re-programed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Ed-
I never mentioned knpv in my response. My comment was on prey, and how it can look great to a beginner. This is sometimes the reason people like the the malinois so much, prey looks strong, and very comfortable at the same time. I'm not impressed with titles because of my ignorance to the judge issueing them.
Ed Frawley Administrator Reg: 07-11-2001
Posts: 2112
Loc:
Offline
This topic's thread is for KNPV - thats why I am talking about it.
Many many Mals have intense prey drve and weak nerves. This is something that new trainers often do not understand.
I just finished editing a Police K9 training video on teaching service dogs search buildings. In this tape I have a short section on using the right dog for the work.
I chose a Mal that I showed taking a helper (in a body suite) to the ground in running bite. From that bite the dog was taken into a building tile floors. The dog froze up on slippery floors. The dog was walking on his toe nails - he would not bite.
There are alot of nice Mals, there are just as many with good prey and nerv problems. So do not confuse prey and working ability.
Ed,
That was one good example of what can happen to a dog with high prey drive and weak nerves. Can you go into it a little more? I love the Belgian breeds, but it does really seem to be a common problem with them. Besides being useless for street work and possibly KNPV and Schutzhund, what are the ramifications of having a dog with very high prey, and very bad nerves?
Ed Frawley Administrator Reg: 07-11-2001
Posts: 2112
Loc:
Offline
Dogs with weak nerves are usually sharp dogs (not always but often). I always rememeber twenty odd years ago Bernard Mannel explaining that a sharp dog was the kind of dog that you want to sleep by the end of your bed. These dogs don't sleep as sound as a strong nerve dog and they are quick to hear noises outside and bark.
This eems to be a common problem wih mals, that almost all people who see them do not understand. Even wiht a lot of the ones that cna take the slick floors, there is always, I have found something that spooks them. I have seen this with German shepjherds but his seems more common.
Ed,I danced a happy jig,when I read your post. I have been trying to convince folks about the weak nerve issue in Mals for some time. I washed out the last 3 KNPV titled Mals brought to me for training because of weak nerve. They looked great on the field,but refused to engage in a building.One Mal actually engaged,but folded up when a Coke can was bounced down the hallway toward him,rattling. One was trained for narcotics,super ball drive,but would have a total "meltdown" after searching a couple of rooms with no find. You would be amazed at the folks that cannot recognize weak nerve in dogs. All the drive in the world is useless for work,if the dog cannot have that drive focused and channeled due to weak nerves.
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
Page 1 of 8 123>>Last
Top
Index
Next Topic
.jpg)
