What would be best way to corect aim after dog has bitten? i.e. dog bites too low and i want him to transfer bite to the armpit area.

I have seen decoys pinching dogs so thay would release and go for the hand and than quickly make fast movement with shoulder so dog would bite there. This might sound simple but really is not.
Any other way?

I would have more control over the dog by either back tieing him or have the handler drag into the bite. Don't let the dog bite where you don't want him to bite. If you imprint the target that you want, it will be the natural choice of the dog.
The decoy has the responsibility of presenting the target in a way that is easy for the dog to understand.
I've personally corrected my dog off of bites that I don't like but it's better for everyone if the dog hits the target you make for him.
Use a bungee if the dog is transfering. I wouldn't promote that activity.

Hi Ivan,
I would NOT transfer the bite, nor correct. I think the dog should be worked - was your error. Next time... don't give him an option.
Lisa <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, that's not necessarilyright. Disregard the above comment please

When we work on "targeting" we always put the dog on post. You also need a good decoy who has some experience with presentation of specific body parts.

Yea, good decoy with experiance <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Only trouble is i am decoy in this story and i dont have much experiance. I guess you work with what you have...

Anyway, we are back to really close bites (guiding dog into bite, like Scott said).

Lisa; move i mentioned is done by decoy iritating dog (pinch his cheek, or cover his eyes) so he will release bite and bite again(now in the wanted area, presented by decoy), after what decoy calms the dog. It is not correction like prong.

The eye covering and cheek pinching thing bothers me.... IMO if you are getting a release from a dog this way (which I don't think you should do anyhow) it is most likely not ready for the targeting of specific body parts. Any chance you could get to a good decoy school any time soon? They are great and you learn a ton of information about the do's and dont's of working dogs. A great helper can make a good dog excellent.... a poor helper can ruin a great dog fast!

That was something i saw on tape once, done with older dog by dutch decoy.
I was not able to make it work that time, and i can understand now why you would not like to do it anyway.

There are no decoy schools here.
For that matter there is no dog sport either (people call show ring a sport) besides agility.

Hi Ivan,
I've seen more than a handfull of methods concerning your problem, but I'm being trained to do the following :
Let the handler hold the dog on a 2 meter leash. The handler starts commanding, Halt Politie (Stop ! Police ! I don't know the commands that are being used in english).He repeats this command twice, meanwhile the decoy walks, with the stick raised in the air and screaming loud, into the dog. Just before the decoy reaches the dog, the decoy bends his arm behind his back and the dog will bite. It's very important, when the dog bites in the wrong spot, the handler makes the dog let go !If the dog bites the wright spot, take the time to let the dog bite ! When you're the decoy, make sure to pet the dog over it's head ( From neck to mouth). Don't allow the dog to grab you with his legs ! The handler must keep a little tension on the leash ! If you see that the dog isn't that confident, kneel down and make the handler stand next to his dog so the dog can't jump from left to right( When you kneel down, the dog stands on four legs and will try to jump around, don't allow this !) You'll see, that when you kneel down and you help the dog, the dog will get really confident. In this stage it's also really, really important for the handler and the decoy to take it slow and easy and not to stress the dog !
I think that if you let the dog bite for at least 15 minutes when biting the wright spot, the dog will start to learn it's biting spot, until then don't go any further !
I hope this is usefull for you and your dog !
If you like, I can translate the KNPV rules and exercises to english ?
I'm really proud that the KNPV has so much influence all over the world and I really want to thank all of you for giving me such a nice welcome on this web-board !
Greets,
Martijn Eijbersen

 Quote:

Hi Ivan,
I've seen more than a handfull of methods concerning your problem, but I'm being trained to do the following :
Let the handler hold the dog on a 2 meter leash. The handler starts commanding, Halt Politie (Stop ! Police ! I don't know the commands that are being used in english).He repeats this command twice, meanwhile the decoy walks, with the stick raised in the air and screaming loud, into the dog. Just before the decoy reaches the dog, the decoy bends his arm behind his back and the dog will bite. It's very important, when the dog bites in the wrong spot, the handler makes the dog let go !If the dog bites the wright spot, take the time to let the dog bite ! When you're the decoy, make sure to pet the dog over it's head ( From neck to mouth). Don't allow the dog to grab you with his legs ! The handler must keep a little tension on the leash ! If you see that the dog isn't that confident, kneel down and make the handler stand next to his dog so the dog can't jump from left to right( When you kneel down, the dog stands on four legs and will try to jump around, don't allow this !) You'll see, that when you kneel down and you help the dog, the dog will get really confident. In this stage it's also really, really important for the handler and the decoy to take it slow and easy and not to stress the dog !
I think that if you let the dog bite for at least 15 minutes when biting the wright spot, the dog will start to learn it's biting spot, until then don't go any further !
I hope this is usefull for you and your dog !

That is what we do now, walk into dog - handler guides him into bite and start walking slowly back while hugging dogs head with left arm (one that dog is on) and calming dog with right hand.
If needed i go on knees and even let dog 'dragg' me around a bit.
Now, you say not to let dog jump around while i am on the ground - why? Also why not to let dog hugg my leg - i find it easier with big dog to keep my balance that way.

Oh, speaking of balance, one of our new dogs is leg bitter - i know this would be really hard to explain over internet, but how do you catch dog in legs on back attack??? Just hope you will remain standing? Would it be better to teach him to target shoulder area?

 Quote:

If you like, I can translate the KNPV rules and exercises to english ?
I'm really proud that the KNPV has so much influence all over the world and I really want to thank all of you for giving me such a nice welcome on this web-board !
Greets,
Martijn Eijbersen

I have Gerard Straatman's book with rule translation, but i have heard that there were some changes as of this year (ditch depth and something with food refusal i am not shure) so if you could tell me about that.

KNPV is very cool dog sport and i really got hooked <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I hope my puppy (and I) will be ready for trial in 2007. It would be nice to get my first PH1 on 100th anniversary!