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Targets the leg or hand
#35212 - 12/21/2004 12:01 PM |
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Reg: 03-16-2004
Posts: 151
Loc: Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
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Any thoughts on how to get a 4 year old bitch to stop watching the legs? She has been civil trained up until this past year where we've started a Schutzhund club. Now when we're working the escape exercise she watches the legs, and if the helper and handler aren't careful will bite them. She also prefers to go low on the hand than middle of the sleeve. Her blind work and courage test is excellent, but the escapes leave much to be desired. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Targets the leg or hand
[Re: Tammy Dempsey ]
#35213 - 12/24/2004 08:01 AM |
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Reg: 03-16-2004
Posts: 151
Loc: Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
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I can't believe it!!! I've stumped you all??? 
I thought for sure somebody would have SOMETHING to say!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Guess I have the first dog in the world to target something other than the sleeve! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I may have to contact the Guiness people! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Targets the leg or hand
[Re: Tammy Dempsey ]
#35214 - 12/24/2004 09:37 AM |
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Reg: 03-28-2004
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There was a post very similiar to this in the last few days. It concerned a dog biting higher towards the shoulder. There were a bunch of good suggestions. I think it was in the French Ring section.
Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory lasts forever.
-Shane Falco
The Replacments |
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Re: Targets the leg or hand
[Re: Tammy Dempsey ]
#35215 - 12/24/2004 10:19 AM |
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Reg: 03-16-2004
Posts: 151
Loc: Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
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Hi, thanks for the reply, good to know SOMEBODY is out there! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
However, that post did nothing to address my problem, or for that matter Phillipe's problem!
A couple things we have tried, which seem to work temporarily, but aren't always available... we put a barricade in front of her to make her jump it to break up the focus on the legs. We have also tried doing bitework where she is on a hill and the helper is below her. However on the flat, she doesn't even look at the helper, in the eyes or at the sleeve. She is watching for the legs to move, then she comes in low and will take what she can get. She does love ankles and groin! I must video tape it to see it from all different angles. It's really quite strange. She doesn't lack confidence or conviction, she just seems to have her own agenda! :rolleyes:
Anyone else???
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Re: Targets the leg or hand
[Re: Tammy Dempsey ]
#35216 - 12/24/2004 11:17 AM |
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Reg: 09-27-2002
Posts: 637
Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.
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What happens when you post the dog and force her to take arm bites?
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Re: Targets the leg or hand
[Re: Tammy Dempsey ]
#35217 - 12/24/2004 11:38 AM |
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Reg: 01-25-2003
Posts: 5983
Loc: Idaho
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Tammy,
If the dog's original training foundation was started with leg work, I've found that it's very difficult to change the dog's focus at a much later time. During any stressful period, a dog will almost always revert back to it's foundation work, as that is likely it's "comfort" zone.
I was in the same boat that you're in several years ago. I had a GSD with a KNPV background ( and titled in KNPV...yeah for a GSD in the non-typical sports <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) and during SchH escapes, he bit the decoy on the backside more often than I care to remember <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
We practiced escapes *hundreds* of times with the decoy holding the sleeve waaaay out until that dog was steady for that exercise. You'll need a good decoy and a lot of training time to solve this problem.
And posting the dog in a harness as Matthew mentioned would be an early, smart step to begin with.
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Re: Targets the leg or hand
[Re: Tammy Dempsey ]
#35218 - 12/24/2004 03:31 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 03-16-2004
Posts: 151
Loc: Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
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Yeah! Something I can "sink my teeth into"! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
She will take the sleeve if that is in her target zone, if nothing else is allowed, however it's got to be very deliberate. Is this just going to take time and repetition to transfer this idea to the escapes? I think the guys worked her at one point where they came across her line of site, I had her on a short line and controlled feed. If they are running straight away, she forgets about the sleeve again! :rolleyes:
We'll see what the new year brings, maybe she'll have a resolution to be a good dog! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Keep the ideas coming!
Happy Holidays everyone!
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Re: Targets the leg or hand
[Re: Tammy Dempsey ]
#35219 - 12/24/2004 04:11 PM |
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Reg: 04-08-2002
Posts: 383
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This is what I did to get a sleeve dog onto legs:
Have the handler "shoot" the dog at the target by having the dog on a 15'long line and harness. Send the dog to the bite with 10' of loose line, have the helper 12' to 15' away, then when the dog hits the 10' mark, pull him back 5' and let him loose again. when the dog is targeting the right spot, let him fly. When he goes for any other area, he gets reeled back in.
this was the next step we took after the slow drag into the bite. My dog is on the legs now 90% of the time. I really thought it was going to be hopeless after a thousand sleeve bites. After seeing this work on my dog, I would say "don't give up!"
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Re: Targets the leg or hand
[Re: Tammy Dempsey ]
#35220 - 12/24/2004 04:13 PM |
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Reg: 11-20-2002
Posts: 1303
Loc: Colorado
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One of the members of my ring club decided that, after seeing a decoy fall on the dog on a flee that she wanted the dog to bite the upper body on the flee to make it safer. If you have pants on she will bite your leg. I usually wear shorts and put just the jacket on. She wentfor and got my leg the first time and then switched to the jacket. as long as I have just the jacket on she will bite it. Biting low on the leg or by the hand on the sleeve isn't confidence. I would agree with will that you are going to need months of correct repetitions before anything will come around. It is tedious work but if you want to do schutzhund thats what it will take. where she bites now is conditioned you have to re-condition to the sleeve only. I am sure theres a better term for this I just don't know it. Keep going!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I am smarter than my dog, your just not. |
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Re: Targets the leg or hand
[Re: Tammy Dempsey ]
#35221 - 12/24/2004 04:19 PM |
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Reg: 04-08-2002
Posts: 383
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One last thing, using that shooting method at close proximaty to the helper will produce success pretty fast. after that go to a 30' line and do the same thing. When the dog is 25' away from the handler and dives for the legs without success, he will catch on quickly.
Sending a loose dog will get someone hurt and allow the dog to do what he wants instead of what you want. That makes retraining twice as hard.
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