I did a little research into Pen Hip and I feel it is a more thorough and telling exam than just OFA films.

I see that Ed does not agree and I have talked to at least one other breeder that likes OFA better also.

The pen hip series includes the same view as OFA and also includes 2 addl. views,including a stressed view in the neutral position. This makes more sense to me as it gives a more complete picture of the true laxity in the hip of the dog, so I'm wondering why breeders are resistant to utilizing this test as the protocol for assessing hip status.Is it because it is more expensive and less recognized?

I was just wondering if any one else has any thoughts on this topic.

And yes, I had my dog Bella's hip Pen Hip certified at the age of one yr.( then decided to spay her 1 yr. later!!LOL)

Looking forward to feedback from everyone!

The last time I checked, the hip extended view (traditional one) was only done for "research purposes" and it did not effect the PennHip rating. So unless you take a second film of the hip extended view to send to the OFA, it's not really being evaluated.

Unless things have changed it's an apples and oranges comparison given the above info.

I also believe that we would be much better served by doing BOTH views (hip extended and distracted). The OFA hip extended view is great for identifying osteophytes, flattening of the femoral head, shallowness of the acetabulum, etc - structural deficiencies in the joint. But it cannot assess the laxity in the joint, which vets unanimously agree is a contributing factor to DJD. The two views evaluate different criteria, and I think we should not turn our backs on additional information that would assist us in identifying problems. There certainly are dogs who go Good or Excellent OFA, yet whose hip laxity is so extreme that their hips will dislocate with ease. Neither scheme is perfect used alone, but used together they give an excellent and thorough evaluation of ALL of the criteria that go into a good hip joint

Lauren,

There are 3 views done for PennHip.All three views are interpreted for the overall assessment.The stess view in the neutral position is used to assess laxity in the joints.However, both hips are evaluated for DJD,cavitation,laxity and any other finding.

To take a second film and send it to OFA for evaluation is redundant.

Also, the laxity part of the report is given in percentiles, so you are better able to evaluate your dogs actual score, instead of a general range as w/OFA. This could be very useful in a breeding program when matching up males and females for improving hip genetics.

I've never seen an overall eval. on a breeder's page, just the DI and percentile. So, I guess my question is how many breeders ask for and carefully read the eval. on a dog they are considering breeding to versus just looking at the numbers? I've never seen an eval. on a web site, so it makes me wonder.

I was looking over Bella's eval and it explains about the DI and it's relevance to DJD.This is where the percentile comes in and explains why you would see that info given by breeders that want you to know their dogs numbers.

I think perhaps people are wary because it is not as mainstream. I had a conversation online w/ Fred LAnting about it and he was so very knowledgable that he was able to scientifically explain to me the intricate details as to why it is so superior to OFA. As I am an x-ray tech it was all very sensible to me.

Unfortunately, being a little brain fried these days <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> , I cannot recall all of the details we spoke about , only what I have said so far really. I just remember saying to myself, WOW, how great this exam is and how logical it is in the way it examines the hips for true soundness.

I think his website is gone now, but on my dogs eval there is a website: http://www.vet.upenn.edu/pennhip

I would guess that they can provide guidance for more detailed info, but I haven't had the time to look up the site.( 4 kids and 2 GSD's keep me busy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

I think it is more expensive too, so breeders may be hesitant to lay out the extra cash if they are complacent w/ the inferior exam mainly because it is more widely recognized.

Also, I heard that OFA lobbies hard to keep themselves as the ruling body on hip soundness.

OK, well I finally made some time to check out the web site on PennHIP.VERY INFORMATIVE!

I definately recommend that anyone w/ a dog they are thinking about using for breeding get this exam 1st.The details provided in the method section make it very clear why it is superior to OFA.

I would recommend all dog owners be familiar with this site's info, even if just to have the addl. knowledge.

I personally don't know how anyone could prefer or even trust OFA certification over PennHIP once they have done some investigative comparrisons.

Is it possible that SCH3FH2 and myself are the only ones who feel this way?( I am assuming that SCH3FH2 agrees w/ me based on his post) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yup, I agree. My orthopedic surgeon educated me on PennHip 6 yrs ago and I've been using it ever since. I'm not a breeder - I just want to know that my pups are going to be serviceably sound to work, so I don't waste money on OFA. I just do the PennHip eval quite young and again around a year old. I've read all the research in JAVMA on it and the reliability is quite impressive.

In reading these posts; I was wondering, at what age should the first PennHip be accomplished?

Dallas is now 6 months old and growing everyday before my eyes <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> She seemed "loose" in the hip area a month ago and when I expressed my concerns to the vet; he was not concerned in the least; saying that she was a growing youngster and looked/felt completly "normal" to him.

I have no plans for breeding and only am concerned with overall health.

They recommend 4 months of age as the earliest and 6 months is preferred. The studies on repeatability of the results at 4 mos. and at 12 mos. showed that they often didn't get the exact same result, but if you look at the raw data, you'd see that while the percentile did change on a significant number of dogs, they invariably WORSENED with age, not improved. So if the hips are excessively lax at 4 mos., the chance that they will tighten to an acceptable level at one year is poor. So I eval them at 4 mos. to see if the pup is already a poor risk. Your dog, at 6 mos., can be done any time with excellent reliability.