Just wondering if anyone is doing TTD with their dog? I have been training my boy in it and he is doing great. He is right on the track, does very well at corners etc.

When I first started the tracking he did good at articles..he would stop at them, somtimes pick them up etc. As we have progressed, his article indication is getting very subtle. He does 'indicate'...at least I can tell, but his nose is immediately back on the track and he is pulling to go.

I do want to trial him and I need him to indicate better at the articles...any suggestions?

When he gets to the article and gives you an indication, however subtle, make him down. Do this everytime and he should pick it up very quick.

Make sure you don't praise him until after he is completely down, then praise him for the find.

The only thing I would add to what Kevin has said is when he downs after a sucessful indication and you have given him minor praise, allow a few seconds for him to regain his focus on the primary task.

Dogs do not down on articles in TTD. Shandar's dog is doing exactly what he is supposed to. TTD is not for trials, it is for work.

If you choose to work your dog on the road and trial the dog you must make some changes to the way you track. Street work and competition work are not mutually exclusive but the work must be well planned out and your goals clear to both the handler and dog.

It would seem to me that the very essence of TTD would cause a dog to blow a track in a trial if he happened to be working upwind at any point, just as an example. In TTD, the dog is not *supposed* to stay on the track if he knows where the bad guy is. It's a waste of time. I'm wondering what happends then, if you're in a trial situation, and the dog tracks like he has learned in TTD......seems to me that you'd pretty much have to train him FST to be able to trial him. Maybe I just don't know how trials work, but I'm imagining that there are rules as to how the dog is supposed to track, that would conflict with TTD. Am I mistaken?

Don't mean to sound like some other individual here, but I'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around how a dog trained in TTD could perform well in a highly structured test.....

TTD tracking is not just used for police work. It is also used for search and rescue and many people who trial in TD or TDX also use this type of training on thier dog. In these type of trials it is not about how slow or fast a dog tracks but if he stays on track , finds corners and finds articles. I beleive the dog is actually allowed to overshoot a corner by a lead length. It is not the same as schutzhund type tracking.

As far as a dog not tracking on track or a dog that leaves the track when he finds the person, so much of this really depends on the training. If you allow your dog to air scent right from the beginning (this may happen by laying tracks against the wind...instead of the wind at your back) or if you allow your dog right from the beginning to follow the track beside the actual 'laid' track then yes, you could have problems. You can get a pretty deep nose still with dogs trained in TTD ....it is how you train them.

Even in TTD, one still teaches a dog to indicate at articles. My biggest problem is that I get busy concentrating on running with my dog and not falling , I miss his subtle indications! So, my goal is to get him to indicate better or longer <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have been using some food under the article. This does make him stop for a longer period of time and then he is right back to the track.

Another meathod would be to teach the article off the track. This is what Gary Murray suggested to me. I have also been doing that and it also seems to help.

My dog is a titled TD, but now we are training for SAR using TTD. I opted to join a SAR team rather than pursue a TDX and a VST.

My dog was taught FST from the beginning, and was never allowed to air scent or fringe follow, but since we switched to TTD, he will air scent the subject if conditions allow. We train as much as possible with the wind, but often, wind direction changes between the time you lay the track and the time you run it. In addition, in a real life situation, you wouldn't WANT the dog to stubbornly stay on the track simply because that's what he's been taught to do, if he knows where the subject is. The idea is to find the subject.

The whole idea of TTD is for the dog to use whatever method is appropriate for the conditions in order to find the subject...if that means air scenting, fringe following, cutting corners, or breaking any number of tracking "rules", then that's OK. The reason you train with the wind is to give the dog a solid foundation in ground scent before moving on to advanced work that allows for flexibility in how he tracks. It doesn't mean that the dog must always have his head down, or that he never ever air scent. If he finds the subject, what does it matter if he cut a corner, or air scented his way to them?

I am not disagreeing with you. But, when you are trialing in TD and TDX there is no person at the end of the track so you really don't have to worry about the dog leaving when he airscents a person.

In TTD is may also not just be the 'person' that is important to find. The person may have dropped a gun, or some article that would be pretty important for the dog to track and find, so while you are right that you want the dog to use all that is available to them to track, the 'track' is still important.

Even when the wind is not behind you ,you can still train your dog to follow THE track and not 2 feet away (where the wind may have pushed it) So, it would seem you can allow your dog the flexability if you want or you can teach him which track it is that you want the nose to follow.

So, I think I have answered your question on why it might be important for your dog to not airscent the whole track etc.

In SAR the final outcome is finding the peson, and although finding some articles along the way might be helpful, you are right the final outcome is finding the person.

In June I took a TTD seminar with Gary Murray and this is how I understood things but I am certainly not an expert.

IMO a SAR dog or a PSD has a goal in tracking of locating a person. That should be done by allowing the dog to track naturally and cutting corners, etc. (TTD?)is fine, in fact, preferred. A lost kid could wonder in circles in the freezing cold for a long time and in reality not have gone very far. I would want my dog to get to that kid as quickly as possible.

As far as a PSD I would think the primary objective is to locate the suspect. If at that time it is believed that he dropped something, take the dog back and have him search for an article.

As far as downing on an article during a track, I have to be honest and say I have mixed feelings. When searching for a lost person I think it would be important, but no neccesarily so when tracking a criminal. Than can be done later.

Any opinions?