Do you use terms like hot or cold nosed dogs, and dogs that straddle tracks or drift tracks? Are multiple dogs ever used in tracking a man? Are any of the working dogs open mouth on track (bark while tracking)? Have you ever heard of anyone training a coonhound (Walker, Redbone, Bluetick, English, Black&Tan not a bloodhound) for police work? Coonhounds are openmouthed while tracking, I can see where this could be a disadvantage if tracking an armed criminal and an advantage for searchand rescue. Do handlers ever use tracking collars on their dogs. I relied on tracking collars heavily back when I coonhunted. I could see where using one would allow back up in a vehicle (especially if they used it in conjunction with a GPS) could keep close tabs on the tracker and his dog if they were going cross-country or moving in real dense terrain.
Thanks,
Chuck

CP:"Do you use terms like hot or cold nosed dogs, and dogs that straddle tracks or drift tracks?"

VC: No, I don't think so.


CP:"Are multiple dogs ever used in tracking a man?"

VC: No, not that I've seen and not with bite dogs, not a very good idea. Multiple dogs can be used in cooperation to search large areas, but should be kept away from each other IMO.

CP:"Are any of the working dogs open mouth on track (bark while tracking)?"

VC: No, bad idea. . .if they are it should be discouraged. In SAR dogs are often taught a barking alert to a find, but they don't give voice as they track.


CP:"Have you ever heard of anyone training a coonhound (Walker, Redbone, Bluetick, English, Black&Tan not a bloodhound) for police work?"

VC: What type of police work? I have not seen any, that doesn't mean much. I don't even see those breeds, let alone them doing anything, in my part of the country.


CP:"Do handlers ever use tracking collars on their dogs."

VC: I don't think so, but many use e-collars and train the page function as a silent recall command. The goal is usually to have the dog track/search within sight of the handler and not get off on his own.

Hi Chuck...
Have had a patrol dog for almost 12yrs in mid-atlantic region..have not heard the terms "hot/cold nose" yet..have heard of dogs "fringe" tracking (not foot step to footstep)...don't know of anyone running hunting hounds as man-trackers in police world (not to say there aren't any out there)...as for tracking multiple dog, there is "tandem" tracking: fresh dog team picks up where spent team ends....however, in my dept. we will run a bloodhound team on an older track with a patrol dog team following (in case apprehension is needed).... I once heard that in the remote places of Canada, they would deploy bloodhounds for searches with radio collars and follow from an airplane...the GPS system on a dog could certainly be a benefit at times IMO (once lost my first "patrol" dog for two days-don't ask)...hope this helps.
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From a SAR point of view, we do run multiple dogs but they stay in their individual search grids. The dogs don't work open mouth because the bark indicates a find. When a subject/cadaver is found, the dog will bark till the handler gets there. With my hunting terriers we use a locator collar but it is only good to 15ft. All we need it for is to find the dog after it has gone to ground with the quarry. From the entrance to the den we work out in a circle till the dog is located, then start digging.

VC:
The goal is usually to have the dog track/search within sight of the handler and not get off on his own. Campy, in wilderness SAR in this part of the country, that's near impossible unless you're working the dog on lead (which is a major undertaking in dense vegetation!). Think about how thick the vegetation is out in the woods. The dog can't go five feet without disappearing from the handler's sight, LOL. That goal is a lot more realistic in different parts of the country where a dog can range quite far and still remain in view of the handler.

Chuck, a GPS is probably not going to work in real dense terrain. You lose satellite reception when the canopy gets too thick or you get down into drainages. Best to know how to use a map and compass, and use radios to keep in touch. Most folks I know who work their dogs off lead put bear bells and bright orange or yellow vests on them, and at night time, use lighted collars or attach lights or glowsticks to their vests.

I have heard of coonhounds being used in SAR, but I don't know if they work open mouthed or not. I never thought to ask that question. I would imagine that if that was the case, you might train a different kind of alert, such as a recall/refind or bringsel.

Lisa wrote:"Campy, in wilderness SAR in this part of the country, that's near impossible unless you're working the dog on lead (which is a major undertaking in dense vegetation!)."

Oh Jeesses. . .within reason of course. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

In SAR you don't set the dog out to find a track and then follow it fast and hot as possible to go tree a furry critter. . .while the humans catch up and hopefully follow the sound fo the baying.

You have some more control than that, and even though the dog ranges some, you don't want them getting all that far off right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

....well duh. :rolleyes:


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We have the orange vests and the lit collars, and yes, the dogs are under control. We use two ground pounders with each dog and handler. The ground pounders will be at the left and right of the dog and handler. How far depends on terrain. Their job is to keep an eye on the terrain so the handler can concentrate on watching the dog, and to give a visual boundry for the dogs. We use a GPS system to plot our original location. The teams have airial maps and topo maps. Each team is given a grid and one of the ground pounders is in contact with our control center (van) at all times.

Chuck,I am a a trooper with the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. I just found this forum and read your post.I have been running Bluetick,Redbone,Black&Tan crosses for two yrs. The prison systems in Texas and Oklahoma have been doing it for decades. My dogs came from stock that has been used and bred by the Texas Dept. of Criminal Justice for at least 75 yrs. I run these dogs off-leash and in packs of 4-6. They are open-mouthed and will tree, bay or catch an individual after they have tracked him down. Most of the tracks we run are rural and take place in the swamps, slashes, and mountians of Eastern Oklahoma. The oldest track so far was eleven hrs. old and the longest apprehension was 61/2 mi. Our success rate stands at 95%.In the last month we have tracked two seperate individuals armed with long guns. Both vowed they would not be taken alive. Since these dogs bawl on track, we were able to parrellel their path up to a quarter of a mile and wait for them to find the suspect. In each of these cases the dogs bayed the bad guy and due to the noise being made we were able to approach them unnoticed and snatch them up without incident. In order to stay stay close to these dogs we ride mules trained to jump fences. We also use fixed wing air craft and a helicopter fitted with all the latest toys.We make no outlandish claims about the capibilities and offer no excuses if we come up empty. All training tracks are unknown and are 2-4 miles long and aged 1-6 hrs. Yes Chuck,these hounds are man hunting machines, training them requires no food, marked tracks, flagged corners, or any other crutches. They come to this world nose down looking for something to chase. Well I'll hush, just thought you people might find it interesting to hear how hillbillies catch bad guys

Definitely interesting thread and would post but I am busting to get out the door and gone all weekend.

I have *thought* of those radio tracking collars hunters use -- much more intuitive than a GPS while running through the woods - we had one dog hit an air scent 1/2 mile away last weekend and there is no way the handler could keep up, and it is scary for me but one of my team members is a coonhunter - and they say "the dog will find you again if he loves you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />"

We have much to learn from some of those *mountain folks* and hunters ..... If I got lost I would want one of THEM looking - a great deal of respect - they KNOW the woods like no one else! Dang!!!

I will have to come back and read the thread on Monday.