I dont know if I am one of the only Military guys in here but why does the Military not train on so many other things. For Ex. I never learned how to do muzzle trng at Lackland and I think this is the most important part of police type trng. I never learned any defensive trng there. All they did is prey work, almost all the dogs we get are locked in prey and its very hard to get them out. We never did any tracking. I dont know if there is any other Mil guys but I cant count how many times they tried to send me in the woods for some PVT lost from the NAV course. I never did any suit, hidden sleeve, or anything that would test a dogs character. In my opinion these tasks should be considerd critical before being put in the field. I know there like a assembly line but you cant do that with dogs! Anyone out there feels my pain. I think the MWD sections are good if they have expiernced handlers or people that love there job and are thristy for knowledge. And also the Army should have never given up the program, the Airforce screwed the pooch. LOL that was for MR. Frost.

ARMY OF ONE
GO ARMY

Austin moon,
I think you answered your own question, assembly line. Seriously though, who knows.
I was first introduced to so called working dogs through handlers in my squadron (USAF), they had all kinds of excuses. All you had to do was bounce a ball and the bite work was over. I believe part of the problem is the fact that these guys are trained to be handlers, they're not trainers(try to tell one of them that). It's a lot like your civilian guys who attend a handlers school with a department and all of a sudden they know it all. It takes all kinds>

Also if you want to see a pretty cool website go to http://www.fortbenningk9.net thats my kennels website. Pretty cool pics. Thank u for replying about the USAF. The truth comes out. LOL

If you want a brief history about MWD Training I can provide that. Up until the late 60's, the Air Force had the Sentry, the class was 8 weeks long, and many new handlers worked a green dog. Those that didn't at least had a previously trained dog, but there were green dogs in thier class. the Handler and dog went through the training together. those of you that remember the Sentry dog, know that they were a bit psycho but did thier job very well, with was primarily working air scent, we called scouting, and bite. The Air Force started looking at the Patrol dogs around 1967, a bit more of a controlled dog. The first batch of Air Force Instructors were trained by Washington Metro PD. The Air Force established it's patrol dog school around 1968, maybe even late 67. the class orinally was 12 weeks long, and again many of the students, most in the beginning, went through the class with a green dog. The AF then did feasibility studies on drug dogs, late 1968, and explosives detectors in late 71 on into 72. During Viet Nam era they also did some feasibility studies on the water dog, and mine tunnel and trip wire dogs. There were also some other studies being done. To make a long story short, the Air Force, around 1981 made a decision to eliminate dog training with students. All dogs would be trained by a cadre of handlers, permanently assigned to the dog school. the classes were shortened, and handlers were now put through a training session with a push button dog, and never had the opportunity to see how that dog was trained. Old farts, like myself retired, and as we left, so did the corporate memory of dog training. I was a proud member of the MWD Program from 1966 to 1988. I saw it at it's best and watched as it, in my opinion, declined. In truth it broke my heart to see what was happening, yet be powerless to stop it. Oh a short history of the MWD Program. Up until 1988 anyway.

DFrost

Austin,
That is a cool site.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mr. Frost your starting to show your age!!! I do agree about the part about the program going down. But when I went through the school I handled a green dog. He was a Narc and Patrol I was able to certify him in Narc but not in patrol. He didnt like to out. I didnt get to spend alot of time with him in patrol work. They concentrated mostly on detection. I figured I would get your attention. You know old Military guys gotta tell stories. LOL. I respect what you did for our country and hope I will be able to make a impact like you did. You are appericated for your service in the Military!!! Guardians Of The Night.

just so you will know my english is not so good so please try to egnore any thing wrong, im realy trying!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

I'm surprised they don't use labradors more often, I think they would specialize better then most breeds with scent detection.
they do use lab's more then you think mostly in the rescue "palga" palga=unit within the unit. and "oket's" in hebrew is sting, just so you know...
ok first comes first, if any of you guys will need or just want to know any thing about the MWD od PWD(police working dogs) i can help you out since all the handlersinstructors who work with me were either handlersinstructors in the army or the police k9 units. my boss is the former head of the israeli police k9 academy.
any way, the army does not use dogs as
"a walking bomb" they did but as far as i know of not any more. for this matter if they do get to a cenario were a suicider is closing him self in a house they would rather blowing up the house from the out side and not sending a dog in.
now if it's a matter of hosteges, i know of 2 times they did send dogs in to a house in an arab villege, the first time it faild couse the kidnapers had a bomb with them and when the dog got in to the room they blew them selves up so they wont get cought.
the second time it worked preety good and the dog was sent in, got a hold of the terrorist and so on...

hope you guys understood whte i ment and hope i can answer or help in any way.
edo

Knowing how to train from the Zero dog with drive to a fully functional K9 is important. It is not just a problem for the military but everywhere. Handlers are more maintainers then trainers. Vendors often buy trained dogs from full service trainers slap some narcotics on them maintain their bite work and produce a product. Sometime the dog is a very good dog some time it is not.

Most of these people do not understand the fundamentals that actually built the dog they claim as 100% a representation of their training ability and knowledge. While efficient. Profitable and over all a much less business risk it leaves holes in the fundamental knowledge that could be drawn upon in problem solving situations. I respect the trainer who handler owns and trains his dog even if they fail to make the top cut. I respect them because they learned and this cannot be taken away nor should it be taken for granted by people who buy the pie already made and sprinkle some sugar on it.

The military methods used today, force many good handlers out the door if they are hungry for more. It is to bad and I hope it changes someday.

When I talked to the kennel master at Quantico he said that they were always looking into new methods of training and maintenance, etc. Given that the KM is the #1 trainer at the installation, this seems like a good thing-that there's improvement and expansion, if not during the introductory programs at Lackland, then during deployment.

Mr. Moon, I'd be interested to hear more about maintenance training that you do, and how much more info and experience goes into deployment readiness training than the intro stuff you did at Lackland.