Anybody have anything to update on their training progress. Good and bad points. My puppy is too young. I am still building drive. I use a friends dog to improve on my handling so that I make the mistakes now and not on my SchH dog. I would love to hear from any of you publically or privately.

Vince

I have been using Bernhards method on my young dog. He does very well with it in obedience. I am having trouble in the bite work. He doesn't want to hold the sleeve like he does the ball in obedience. He is defensive and I am thinking this is the problem. He focuses on the man instead of the sleeve. Even in prey he still will not hold the sleeve. He will carry but immediately spits it out when I try and hold him. He won't even hold it at the car. I make him carry it for a bit after the session. He does this just fine, with a full grip but slow down or get to the van and he drops it. Am I doing something wrong? Like I said he is a model student for Bernhards method in the obedience. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I have started using Bernard's method with my dog. He gets drivey and focused, but when I move to the heel with the ball, he drops it. I know it will take time, but he really is opposed to the "holding" of an object (unless of course he wants to). This is where I just may have to use some compulsion to teach him to mind my wishes. He will now return with the item and is happy to 'out' it when I say "out".
I find that now that I'm doing the "into my arms" he seems to trust me more and want to be closer to me. This is a big help. He is anticipating the "out" less, and not chewing quite so much, but as with anything this will take time and patience. As always suggestions are appreciated.

Phyllis:

"He gets drivey and focused, but when I move to the heel with the ball, he drops it."

I'm sorry, I do not understand what you are saying.

Karmen:

Two approaches. One old. One new. The old way is every time the dog spits out the sleeve the helper puts pressure on him. He learns that when I hold on I'm safe. How I recently overcame this with my pet is I increased the time I petted him each session. The first time we would run in circles a couple of times then stop a second and run again. The next time we would stop and I would kneel down. Then I would bring him in my arms. Next session one stroke.....After a few sessions I could pet him for a minute or so. He still falls back to his old ways once in a while but remember the hold is as much genetic as learned. My pet is no prey freak.

I have the same exact problem as Karmen with my 16-mos old bitch. She has a great ball drive and focus, so obedience was a piece of cake. She was also the best puppy in the puppy circle -- first to chase, bite and bark. The problems started with the switch to a sleeve. She seems to have a low defensive threshold and bites hard and full only under pressure (however slight), never showed any signs of avoidance, and doesn't seem to be stressed at all. I was trying to make her carry just like Vince described, with hit & miss results. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, I was under the impression that carrying is used as a relief from stress. What other advantages are there? Do we really need to concentrate on this so much?

My greatest concern now is the escape. She will do a nice "courage test" (or a version thereof) if the helper is facing her, but as soon as he switches to prey by running away, she seems to be confused -- like: "Well, I chased him away, what else do you want me to do?" It seems to me that she doesn't view a man/sleeve combination as a prey item, or that her prey drive is not high enough to sustain her through her reluctance to bite a human unless pressured? We are currently trying to make her interested in prey biting, but she seems to get bored easily.

Any suggestions will be highly appreciated.

Hi Vince, I'm sorry about my wording, what I mean is that he gets worked up after the ball, and will sit when I say sit and focus on the ball. I can move the ball fairly close to his nose without him biting at it.
2 inches at this point. When we are working and he gets the ball, I put him into the heel in circles, and he immediately drops the ball. I don't know if I'm confusing him, or he just doesn't want to hold it in his mouth. I'll have to review that part of the tape again, and see what I'm doing wrong I think. Perhaps the basic training that he has with heel is the problem? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Renee:

The hold is vital. You say your puppy bites in defense with no stress. I think it is better to say little stress. Because the absence of stress would be fight and he is too young for that. But if he is to develop fight than the stress must be increased later in training and that is when the carry is more important.

Phyliss:

I understand now it was the word heel that threw me. You mean run or walk in circles. What you must do is as soon as he drops the ball grab it and tease the shit out of him with it. Frustrate him so much that next time he will not want to give it up.

Ok Vince, thanks I'll give it a try and let you know how it goes. He waits for the training sessions, he really loves them.
He learned my pre session cues quickly, much more quickly than the other things that I'm training. Must be motivation and enjoyment.
Just goes to show, if the dog likes it he will learn much faster. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Anyone else out here got any suggestions for Renee (see above)? Especially those of you who have trained dozens of dogs. I know her young dog and it's a very nice GSD bitch--just passed her BH under Doug Deacon a couple of weeks ago. Very good, steady nerves, and a very social dog. Of course no one wants to see the dog get screwed up, and this is kind of a crucial phase right now. Thanks for any insight you can offer.

Pete Felknor

Renee,

I have a similar problem for a much different reason. The way we have been handling it is to start by using the defense to build frustration and then move back. As the dog learns to go out and make the bite, start to make the dog chase down the helper. Start with a step before the dog makes the bite, then 2 and so on until the dog is going out to make the bite. Then decrease the stress until there is none. It shouldn't take that long to teach him that he needs to go out to get the bite. If he balks at less stress have the helper turn and apply the stress and then run away. The dog should learn that if he doesn't bite the guy will come back and frustrate him more, so it may as well make the bite in the first place.